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That makes so much sense.
这很有道理。
What are some examples of communities where we can actually see some of that positivity?
有哪些社区的例子可以让我们看到一些积极的方面？
Yeah, so I'm the co-director of this project called the Human Generosity Project, where we've looked at how people help each other in times of need.
嗯，我是这个名为“人类慷慨计划”项目的联合主任，我们在这个项目中研究了人们在需要时如何互相帮助。
We've done field work in more than a dozen small-scale societies around the world, computational models and then also experiments with human participants.
我们在世界各地的十几个小规模社会中进行了实地研究，建立了计算模型，还进行了有人类参与者的实验。
And what we found is that people help each other in times of need and that in the computational models, this is a viable strategy that can outperform strategies that are more, like, stingy and, like, account-keeping.
我们发现，在需要的时候人们会互相帮助，而在计算模型中，这是一种可行的策略，它可以胜过那些更吝啬、更像记账的策略。
My favorite example from the field is really where the whole project started, which is with the osotua rules that the Maasai of East Africa follow.
我最喜欢的实地例子实际上是整个项目的起点，即东非马赛人遵循的osotua规则。
Osotua is a very important part of their culture and how they relate to one another.
Osotua是他们文化中一个非常重要的部分，以及他们是如何相互联系的。
They depend on their herds of cattle for their survival, and so if there's a drought or disease, somebody might lose cattle through no fault of their own.
他们依靠牛群生存，因此如果发生干旱或疾病，即便自身并没有出错，有人也可能会失去牛群。
And then they can ask an osotua partner for cattle to get up to the threshold for what they need to support themselves and their family, and people will give without expecting to get paid back.
然后他们可以向osotua伙伴要牛，拥有养活自己和家人所需要的最低门槛，别人也会给他，且不求回报。
It's almost like an informal insurance system.
这有点像非正式的保险系统。
And we see examples of this in other societies, many other societies.
我们在其他社会中也看到了这样的例子，很多其他社会。
Even in the American West, there's a system called neighboring, where neighbors will help each other in times of need, and one really interesting tidbit from this work that we did in the West-so this is in southern Arizona and New Mexico, near the border-the ranches that are, you know, huge, and people's neighbors are, you know, a half hour away, often, but they will drive long distances to help one another.
即使在美国西部，也有一种叫做邻里互助的制度，邻居们会在需要的时候互相帮助，我们在西部所做的这项工作中有一个非常有趣的细节——是在亚利桑那州南部和新墨西哥州，靠近边境的地方——那里的牧场非常大，人们的邻居通常在半小时车程之外，但他们会驱车长途跋涉去帮助彼此。
And if the help is because of something that was unexpected, like somebody gets injured or is sick, they help each other without expecting to get paid back-versus things that are more predictable, when they sort of expect, "Oh, like, if I go and help you with branding, then you'll come and help me with branding because that's more of a predictable thing."
如果帮忙是因为一些意外，比如有人受伤或生病，他们会互相帮助而不求回报，如果帮忙是因为一些更容易预测的事情，他们就会想，“哦，如果我去帮你做品牌推广，那么你也会来帮我做品牌推广，毕竟这种事更容易预测到。”
We actually then replicated this with an online sample of people who are more urban and found the same pattern, where the needs that arise unpredictably, people help without expecting to get paid back.
然后，我们对城市居民进行了网络抽样调查，结果发现了同样的规律：人们会帮助那些无法预测的需求，而不期望得到回报。
It really seems like what's going on is that a sort of fundamental aspect of human social behavior, human cooperation, is really tuned in to providing a safety net for each other when disasters occur, when there's crises, when there's catastrophes that are outside of your control.
这似乎表明，人类社会行为的一个基本方面，即人类合作，确实是为了给彼此提供一个安全网，当灾难发生时，当出现危机时，当出现超出你控制的灾难时。
And so for folks who are like, "That sounds great. That's how I want to live. What do I do to build a community like that?"
如果有人觉得，“这听起来很棒。这就是我想要的生活方式。我该怎么做才能建立一个这样的社区呢？”
What do you tell folks who are like, "But we live in a society," in other words?
换句话说，你会怎么告诉那些说“但我们生活在一个社会中”的人呢？
Yes, and if you think about it, you probably already have friends that you would call upon in a time of need, who would be there for you and not expect you to pay them back for it.
是的，如果你想一想，会发现你可能已经有了一些朋友，你会在需要的时候求助于他们，他们会在你身边，而不期望你为此回报他们。
That might not be most of the people in your social world, but if you have, you know, a few people who you're close to who play that role, then you actually are already embedded in a need-based transfer network.
这可能只占你社交圈子里的少数人，但如果你有几个亲近的人是这样的角色，那么你实际上已经嵌入了一个基于需求的转移网络。
Now, you might not be explicit about it like the Maasai are, right, like, calling it this sort of special thing.
你可能不会像马赛人那样明确地表达出来，对吧，比如，把它称为某种特殊的东西。
But I would say that all-or definitely most-of us already have some of that.
但我想说，我们所有人——或者至少是大多数人——已经有了一些这样的东西。
If you can be more explicit about it, then that can, you know, both help you to, like, be conscious about cultivating that and also help just you feel, like, maybe a little better and more secure on a day-to-day basis, like, "Oh, yeah, I've got people who've got my back."
如果你能说得更直白些，那么它既能帮助你有意识地去培养它，还能让你觉得也许每天都会更好，更有安全感，觉得：“哦，是的，有人在支持我。”
We can all do that.
我们都能做到。
We can all start there, with the networks we have: strengthen them, grow them.
我们都可以从现有的网络开始：加强它们，发展它们。
And that can happen, you know, within a society where the norms of transactions are based mostly on market principles.
在一个交易规范主要基于市场原则的社会中，可能会出现这种情况。
We can grow those networks of mutual aid just on the basis of mutually deciding that we want to be there for each other.
我们可以发展那些互助网络，只需基于相互决定我们想为彼此提供帮助。
What would you say is the most important lesson for people to take from your book?
你认为人们从你的书中能学到的最重要的一课是什么？
Well, I would start with the cooperation piece.
嗯，我想先从合作部分开始说起。
I mean, I think for many people, when they think of the apocalypse, they think of the breakdown of society and everyone for themselves, and, you know, how are you going to deal with the conflict and everybody trying to steal things from each other, right?
我的意思是，我觉得对很多人来说，他们想到世界末日时，会想到社会崩溃，所有人都自私自利，以及，自己该如何处理冲突，所有人都互相偷窃，对吧？
And that's kind of the image that often pops into people's heads.
人们脑海中经常会出现这种情形。
You know, there's certainly a lot of apocalyptic fiction that, like, you know, shows that kind of world, too, so that probably at least contributes to our, you know, imaginations often going there, and also, you know, I mean, people like to imagine and think through worst-case scenarios, partially for entertainment value but also because it's, like, practice for if things do get really bad, and that kind of makes sense.
当然，有很多世界末日题材的小说展示的都是这样的景象，至少它们会促使我们去想象出那样的画面，而且，人们喜欢想象和思考最坏的情况，部分是为了娱乐价值，另一个原因是它就像一种练习，防止事情真的变得更糟，这么做是有道理的。
