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Donald Trump is now officially the 47th president of the United States. And if Trump gets his way, what we even think of as the United States might come to look very different.
唐纳德·特朗普现在正式成为美国第47任总统。如果特朗普得逞，我们所认为的美国可能会变得截然不同。
And we're not talking metaphorically. We're talking geographically, topographically. Maybe you caught this statement of his a couple weeks ago.
我们不是打比方，而是从地理和地形角度考虑。也许几周前你听到过他的这番言论。
Well, we need Greenland for national security purposes. I've been told that for a long time, long before I even ran.
我们需要格陵兰岛来确保国家安全。我早就被告知了这一点，甚至在我参选之前就有人这么说过。
Trump has been kicking this idea around for years, which is that the U.S. should take, quote, "ownership of Greenland," a partially self-governing territory of Denmark.
多年来，特朗普一直在讨论这个想法，即美国应该取得格陵兰岛的“所有权”，即丹麦的部分自治领土。
People really don't even know if Denmark has any legal right to it. But if they do, they should give it up because we need it for national security. That's for the free world.
人们甚至不知道丹麦是否拥有对格陵兰岛的任何合法权利。但如果他们有，他们应该放弃，因为我们需要它来确保国家安全。这是为了自由世界。
So short of using military force or economic coercion, which he has not ruled out, how exactly does Trump imagine the U.S. taking ownership of Greenland?
除了使用军事力量或经济胁迫（他并未排除这些可能性）之外，特朗普究竟是如何想象美国取得格陵兰岛所有权的？
Well, one thing he's proposed - simply buying it. To which many observers then said, wait. Really?
他提出了一个建议——直接买下它。对此，许多观察家说，等等。真的吗？
This is THE INDICATOR FROM PLANET MONEY. I'm Adrian Ma. And I'm Wailin Wong. Can the U.S. just buy itself a country? Is that a thing? Turns out when you look at our history, it is absolutely a thing. It's called a sovereignty purchase.
这里是THE INDICATOR FROM PLANET MONEY。我是Adrian Ma。我是Wailin Wong。美国可以自己买下一个国家吗？有这种事吗？当你回顾我们的历史时，你会发现这绝对是有这种事的。这叫做主权购买。
Today on the show, how these massive land deals shaped the country we live in today and why the idea of the U.S. buying Greenland is a lot more complicated than it would have been in the past.
今天的节目中，我们将讨论这些大规模的土地交易如何塑造了我们今天生活的国家，以及为什么美国购买格陵兰岛的想法比过去要复杂得多。
For those of you who didn't immediately Google Greenland after Trump's press conference, here is a quick primer.
对于那些在特朗普新闻发布会后没有立即谷歌搜索格陵兰岛的人，这里有一个快速入门指南。
It is a great big land mass bigger than Texas and California combined. Greenland sits way up north in the Atlantic Ocean between Canada and Europe.
这是一块巨大的陆地，比德克萨斯州和加利福尼亚州的总和还要大。格陵兰岛位于大西洋北部，加拿大和欧洲之间。
It's a semiautonomous territory of Denmark, with a population around 56,000 people. Now, because of its location and natural resources, the territory has long been eyed with interest by countries like China.
它是丹麦的一个半自治领土，人口约为56000人。现在，由于地理位置和自然资源，该领土长期以来一直受到中国等国家的关注。
So this goes to why Trump has proposed buying Greenland. And while a lot of people heard his comments and thought, well, that's just bananas, Steven Press says it's not as bananas as you might think.
这就是为什么特朗普提议购买格陵兰岛。虽然很多人听到他的评论后认为，这简直是疯了，但史蒂文·普雷斯（Steven Press）说，这并不像你想象的那么疯狂。
Steven's a history professor at Stanford University, who studies Europe and international affairs. And to start, he just wanted to make one thing clear.
史蒂文是斯坦福大学的历史学教授，研究欧洲和国际事务。首先，他只想澄清一件事。
I don't endorse the specific talk about Greenland that has come from President Trump. I do, however, think there's a really deep history here that involves the United States and really a very large portion of the world.
我不赞同特朗普总统关于格陵兰岛的具体言论。但我确实认为，这里有一段非常深厚的历史，涉及美国和世界上很大一部分国家。
He says the idea that one country might buy a territory from another is called a sovereignty purchase, and it's a practice that actually happened all around the world and dates back thousands of years.
他说，一个国家从另一个国家购买领土的想法被称为主权购买，这种做法实际上在世界各地都发生过，可以追溯到几千年前。
So first thing I'd say is the word sovereignty is, like, notoriously difficult to define, and political leaders won't help you in any way. But sovereignty is something like supremacy in relation to political rights, governmental powers.
我想说的第一件事是，主权这个词是出了名的难以定义，政治领导人不会以任何方式帮助你。但主权类似于与政治权利、政府权力相关的至高无上权。
If you think of governments as having a basket of rights - like the right to conduct military and economic affairs, to impose taxes or laws on people in a particular place -
如果你认为政府拥有一揽子权利——比如开展军事和经济事务的权利、对特定地区的人民征税或制定法律的权利——
a sovereignty purchase is when one government buys some or all those rights from another government.
主权购买就是指一个政府从另一个政府手中购买部分或全部权利。
And this is something the United States has a long history of doing.
美国长期以来一直在这样做。
Alaska, Florida, California and basically the whole middle section of the continental U.S., those are a part of the U.S. today because the U.S. bought the rights to that land from some other colonial power.
阿拉斯加、佛罗里达、加利福尼亚以及美国大陆的整个中部地区，这些地区如今都是美国的一部分，因为美国从其他殖民国家手中购买了这些土地的权利。
If you just kind of quickly add things up, you're talking about an enormous portion of territory, past and present.
如果你只是快速地把这些加起来，你就会发现，你谈论的是过去和现在的一大片领土。
Steven says about 40% of the United States was acquired through sovereignty purchases. This is not to say, though, that these deals don't have some very troubling aspects.
史蒂文说，大约40%的美国领土是通过主权购买获得的。但这并不是说这些交易没有一些非常令人不安的方面。
Yeah. For example, in 1803, President Thomas Jefferson persuaded Congress to fund the Louisiana Purchase.
例如，1803年，托马斯·杰斐逊总统说服国会资助路易斯安那购买案。
For about $15 million, France sold off a chunk of its empire, this vast territory in the middle of the Continent.
法国以大约1500万美元的价格出售了其帝国的一部分，即位于美国大陆中部的这片广阔领土。
And specifically in the deal, the French gave the U.S. exclusive authority to take control of the territory from Indigenous tribes, whether they did that through contracts or through force.
具体来说，在这笔交易中，法国赋予美国从土著部落手中夺取这片领土控制权的独家权力，无论是通过合同还是武力。
That's problematic, but it's a big part of United States' history. Another problematic aspect to sovereignty purchases - sometimes the key ingredient is coercion.
这是有问题的，但它是美国历史的重要组成部分。主权购买的另一个有问题的方面——有时关键因素是胁迫。
Some of the purchases made in relation to Mexico, for example, were in the context of ongoing, often armed disputes over territory.
例如，一些与墨西哥有关的购买是在持续的、通常是武装的领土争端背景下进行的。
Maybe you've heard of the Mexican-American War. In the 1840s, the U.S. expanded its borders by annexing Texas. Then it declared war on Mexico.
也许你听说过美墨战争。19世纪40年代，美国通过吞并德克萨斯州扩大了边界。然后它向墨西哥宣战。
That war ended in 1848 with the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, which was followed a few years later by something called the Gadsden Purchase.
那场战争于1848年以《瓜达卢佩-伊达尔戈条约》结束，几年后又签订了所谓的《加兹登购买案》。
As part of these agreements, Mexico ceded over half its territory to the U.S. in exchange for $25 million and taking on some back debt.
作为这些协议的一部分，墨西哥将其一半以上的领土割让给美国，以换取2500万美元并承担一些债务。
And that territory today includes what we call California, Nevada, Arizona, Utah, plus parts of Colorado, Oklahoma, Kansas and Wyoming. And all of that for $25 million. I think that's what you call a steal.
如今，这片领土包括我们所说的加利福尼亚、内华达、亚利桑那、犹他，以及科罗拉多州、俄克拉荷马、堪萨斯和怀俄明的部分地区。所有这些地方都只花了2500万美元。我认为这才是真正的抢购。
At least the Mexicans probably did. It's kind of a weird chapter of international affairs or relations, but sometimes sovereignty purchases are seen as a relatively peaceful alternative to war or the continuation of war.
至少墨西哥人可能做到了。这是国际事务或国际关系中一个奇怪的篇章，但有时主权购买被视为战争或继续战争的相对和平的替代方案。
But you're saying, like, given the context, it's really almost like "The Godfather," where it's, like, an offer they can't refuse.
但你说，考虑到上下文，这真的几乎就像《教父》中那样，这是一个他们无法拒绝的提议。
Yeah. It certainly can be. On the other hand, it isn't always. We know of cases that were by comparison free of coercion.
是的。当然可以。另一方面，情况并非总是如此。我们知道一些相对而言没有胁迫的案例。
Here's one example. In the late 1860s, Russia was contemplating selling off the territory of Alaska.
例如，19世纪60年代末，俄罗斯正在考虑出售阿拉斯加领土。
The U.S. secretary of state at the time, William Seward, was like, yeah, we should buy it. It'll be great for commerce.
当时的美国国务卿威廉·西沃德说我们应该买下它。这对商业来说大有裨益。
And so for about $7.2 million, the U.S. did just that. And believe it or not, this is when Greenland first appears on the U.S. shopping wish list.
美国以大约720万美元的价格买下了这块领土。信不信由你，这是格陵兰岛首次出现在美国购物愿望清单上。
So Seward's saying, OK, purchase Alaska from Russia. Also, look at Denmark, a relatively old imperial power and one that, looking ahead, doesn't really have the means to maintain its presence in far-flung places.
西沃德说从俄罗斯购买阿拉斯加。此外，看看丹麦，一个相对较老的帝国强国，展望未来，它并没有真正有能力在遥远的地方保持其存在。
It's like the Amazon recommender that's like, you just bought Alaska. People like you also looked at Greenland. But on a much, much larger scale.
这就像亚马逊的推荐者说，你刚刚买了阿拉斯加。像你这样的人也看过格陵兰岛。但规模要大得多。
William Seward, he's, like, scrolling. He's like, hmm, I am interested in these recommendations.
威廉·西沃德正在滑动购物清单。他说，我对这些推荐很感兴趣。
Yeah. One of those far-flung Danish possessions, if you want to call it that, was Greenland.
如果你想这么称呼的话，其中一个遥远的丹麦领地就是格陵兰岛。
Although at the time, Congress did not go for this idea, the idea of buying Greenland did come up a few more times under later presidents - under Woodrow Wilson and FDR and Harry Truman. And obviously, this deal never came to fruition.
尽管当时国会并不赞成这个想法，但在后来的几任总统伍德罗·威尔逊、罗斯福和哈里·杜鲁门的领导下，购买格陵兰岛的想法确实被多次提出。显然，这笔交易从未实现。
So by now, you are probably getting the picture. The idea of sovereignty purchases did not start with Trump.
现在你可能已经明白了。主权购买的想法并不是从特朗普开始的。
These are deals with problematic aspects that gave the U.S. some big economic advantages and are a big reason why the U.S. looks the way it does today. But is it possible for the U.S. to just buy a huge swath of territory like Greenland today?
这些交易存在一些问题，给美国带来了一些巨大的经济优势，也是美国像现在这样的一个重要原因。但美国有可能在今天就购买像格陵兰岛这样的大片领土吗？
Probably not, at least not how it used to go down. And there are multiple reasons for that. For one thing, in the past, these deals happened without any real input from the people living in the places that got bought.
可能不行，至少不像以前那样。原因有很多。首先，在过去，这些交易的发生并没有得到被购买地居民的任何实际投入。
And Steven says in today's international order, the right of self-determination, consent of the governed - these things carry a lot more weight than they used to.
史蒂文说，在今天的国际秩序中，自决权、被统治者的同意——这些东西比以前更有分量。
Any arrangement that doesn't really kind of center the potential benefits and consent of the affected people is really flawed, not just practically speaking but also morally. It's really hard to justify this in terms of public opinion and public perception.
任何不以潜在利益和受影响人民的同意为中心的做法都是有缺陷的，不仅在实践上如此，在道德上也是如此。从公众舆论和公众认知的角度来看，很难证明这一点。
And even if Denmark would entertain the idea of selling Greenland, which it's not, there are currently about 56,000 people living there.
即使丹麦愿意出售格陵兰岛，但事实上并没有，目前那里居住着大约56000人。
And many of those folks want Greenland to declare complete independence from Denmark. Greenland, for its part, has said that the country is not for sale, but it is open to doing business with the U.S.
其中许多人希望格陵兰岛完全脱离丹麦独立。格陵兰则表示，该国不会出售，但愿意与美国做生意。
Steven says while sovereignty purchases for big swaths of territory don't happen as often as they used to, they've sort of lived on in a smaller scale and perhaps by a different name.
史蒂文说，虽然购买大片领土的主权不像以前那么频繁，但它们在某种程度上以较小的规模存在，也许换了个名字。
For example, a lot of countries will pay other countries for the right to install military bases. The U.S. has these all over the world. And you might not quite call that a sovereignty purchase - maybe something more like a sovereignty lease.
例如，许多国家会向其他国家支付建立军事基地的权利。美国在世界各地都有这样的基地。你也许不能称之为主权购买——也许更像是主权租赁。
What about, like, a sovereignty buy now, pay later? I think you might have just come up with a new business idea. I'm going to pitch a VC right now.
那么，先买后付的主权怎么样？我想你可能刚刚想出了一个新的商业想法。我现在要向风险投资公司推销。
