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The concept of the experts that I was talking to is they were saying, basically, this can make the entire transition more expensive.
跟我交谈的专家认为，基本上，这些会让整个能源过渡更加昂贵。
If we're putting a lot of rooftop solar in, then that creates less need for utility-scale solar, so those huge solar farms.
如果我们在屋顶安装大量的太阳能，那么人们对公用事业规模的太阳能的需求就会减少，也就是那些巨大的太阳能农场。
That means that everything is going to be more expensive because rooftop solar is about almost four times more expensive than that utility-scale solar.
这意味着一切都将变得更加昂贵，因为屋顶太阳能比公用事业规模的太阳能贵近四倍。
If we just continue doing a lot of rooftop solar, then the entire energy transition could cost a lot more than it needs to.
如果我们继续在屋顶安装大量的太阳能，那么整个能源转型的成本可能会远远超出所需。
Oh, interesting.
哦，有意思。
So it sounds like what these experts at least were telling you is that, in some cases, if you really wanted you know, if you had a chunk of money, you want to use it to get more sustainable energy to help climate goals,
所以听起来，这些专家好像是在告诉大家，如果你真想知道，如果你不差钱，如果你想用太阳能电池板获得稳定的能源，为气候变化做出贡献，
that you should instead take that money and invest it in a solar farm out somewhere that's going to produce way more solar with the same amount of money than invest in putting it on your roof.
那你应该把这些钱投资在太阳能农场这种地方，在花同样多钱的情况下，能产生更多能源，而不是把它投资在自己屋顶上的太阳能板上。
Exactly. That's exactly it. It's just basically, how do we want to allocate the funds?
完全正确。就是这样。基本就是，我们要如何分配资金？
If we're thinking about this as a problem where we have finite money to devote to it, how do we want to do?
如果我们觉得这是个问题，我们投入的资金有限，那我们想怎么做？
But then why do all these incentives exist to put the solar on my roof if they're saying This isn't actually the best way to go about things?
但是，如果他们认为这不是最好的解决办法，那为什么会有这些在屋顶上安装太阳能的激励措施呢？
This is a big and interesting debate. When a lot of these policies came out, there was very little solar going on in the US.
这是一场重大而有趣的辩论。这些政策刚出台的时候，美国的太阳能还很少。
There was a real push to say we want to get solar out there. We want to get it going.
当时宣传鼓励大家去使用太阳能。我们想让这个观念流行起来。
Maybe the easiest way to do that is on people's roofs, we're going to give them all of these benefits in terms of their electricity bills and in terms of buying the panels upfront and that will help jump-start the solar economy.
也许最简单的方法就是在人们的屋顶上，我们告诉他们这些好处，包括电费和提前购买电池板，这有助于启动太阳能经济。
I think that really worked. Now the question is, is it still a good idea that we're doing that?
我觉得这奏效了。现在的问题是，我们现在还这么做还是个好主意吗？
Is it still a good idea in every place?
它在每个地方还是好事吗？
For example, someplace like California, they have huge amounts of solar on the grid right now. A lot of it is rooftop solar.
例如，像加州这样的地方，他们现在有大量的太阳能发电。其中很多是屋顶太阳能。
That can create a situation where you have a little bit of a solar glut at certain times.
这可能会造成一种情况，有时候太阳能会有点供过于求。
What does that mean a solar glut?
太阳能供过于求是什么意思？
Yes, too much solar. The problem with solar solar only works when the sun is shining. It's very straightforward.
是的，太阳能太多了。太阳能的问题是它只能在阳光灿烂的时候才能工作。这很简单。
Between the morning and the late afternoon is when solar panels are really doing their best and they are creating their peak power in the middle of the day when the sun is high.
上午和下午晚些时候，是太阳能电池板发挥最大作用的时候，它们在一天中太阳高的时候会产生峰值功率。
The problem is that electricity has to be used as it's created unless you have a giant battery to store it, and we don't have that many giant batteries on our grid right now.
问题是电力必须在产生时就被用掉，除非你有巨大的电池把电储存起来，而我们现在的电网上没有那么多大电池。
If you are a state or a grid that has a ton of solar on the grid, then effectively there might be times in the day where you have to shut that solar off because you're producing so much and you're not really using all of that energy.
如果你这个州或电网有大量的太阳能，那实际上，在一天中的某些时候，你可能必须得关掉太阳能，因为它产生的电量太多，而你却用不完。
The problem is that some experts I talked to explained it as there's a solar-shaped hole in the electricity grid in the middle of the day and we can fill that with either rooftop solar or utility solar, and one of those is going to be much cheaper than the other.
问题是，我和一些专家交谈过，他们解释说，正午时分，电网上有一个太阳能形状的洞，我们可以用屋顶太阳能或公用事业太阳能来填补这个洞，其中一种比另一种便宜得多。
Well, one other thing that I thought was interesting from your reporting was that in some ways, this is an equity issue, too, because putting solar on your roof, even when you get some of the incentives and knowing that you're going to make back some of your money it is not cheap.
从你的报道中，我认为另一件有趣的事是，在某种程度上，这还是个股权问题，因为你在屋顶上安装太阳能，即使能得到一些激励，而且知道你会赚回一些钱，但它也是不便宜的。
I would imagine that a lot of people who are spending the money to do it are more likely to be wealthier folks, folks with more disposable income, that they can make this upfront investment, and that that is having an effect on what happens to the power for people with less money.
我能想象，很多花钱这么做的人更可能是比较富的人，他们的可支配收入更高，他们可以进行前期投资，这对那些钱少的人的权力产生了影响。
