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I have in front of me a market conundrum in the form of two glasses.
我面前摆着一个市场难题，那就是两杯水。
Both look pretty much identical, but they come with two very different prices. One cost about $1.30. The other costs less than a penny. You may have guessed it, but I'm talking about bottled water versus tap water.
两杯水看起来几乎一模一样，但价格却大不相同。一杯大约1.30美元，另一杯不到一分钱。你可能已经猜到了，我说的是瓶装水和自来水。
We've done a lot of stories on the economics of water and how tap water is surprisingly cheap.
我们已经报道了很多关于水的经济学以及自来水为何出奇地便宜的故事。
At the same time, water utilities often don't have enough revenue to patch up their aging infrastructure.
与此同时，水务公司往往没有足够的收入来修补老化的基础设施。
So if customers are willing to spend so much on bottled water and water providers need more cash, why don't they just charge more?
如果客户愿意在瓶装水上花这么多钱，而供水商需要更多现金，他们为什么不收取更高的费用呢？
This is THE INDICATOR FROM PLANET MONEY. I'm Darian Woods. And joining us today to answer that very question is Stephen Bisaha from the Gulf States Newsroom.
这里是THE INDICATOR FROM PLANET MONEY。我是Darian Woods。今天加入我们来回答这个问题的是来自海湾国家新闻编辑室的Stephen Bisaha。
Hey, thanks for having me. And yes, we're a family of public radio stations in Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi.
谢谢你的邀请。我们是阿拉巴马州、路易斯安那州和密西西比州的公共广播电台大家庭。
And today, we talk about why it's so hard to raise rates while still making sure everyone has access to what's considered an essential human right - clean drinking water.
今天，我们来谈谈为什么在确保每个人都能获得被视为基本人权的清洁饮用水的同时提高水费是如此困难。
We also hear about how a plan to solve that in Mississippi led to a threat to cut off hundreds of thousands of people from food stamps.
我们还听说了密西西比州解决这一问题的计划如何导致数十万人的食品券被切断。
To find an answer to our water pricing contradiction, we called up Manny Teodoro. He's a professor of public affairs at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and kind of a water influencer.
为了找到解决水价矛盾的答案，我们打电话给了曼尼·特奥多罗（Manny Teodoro）。他是威斯康星大学麦迪逊分校的公共事务教授，也是水资源影响者。
I think my wife got tired of listening to me grouse about things, so she said, you should write a blog with all these great ideas you've got for applied stuff in the world. So I started writing this blog.
我想我的妻子厌倦了听我抱怨事情，她说，你应该写一个博客，把你对世界上应用的东西的所有好主意都写出来。所以我开始写这个博客。
That was back in 2018, and Manny quickly realized that this was a much better way of sharing his ideas than complaining to his wife, or even writing peer-reviewed papers.
那是在2018年，曼尼很快意识到这是一种分享想法的更好方式，而不是向妻子抱怨，甚至写同行评议的论文。
So the fun thing is while I don't have a following in the hundreds of thousands or millions or anything, what I do have is an audience of people who are very specialized.
有趣的是，虽然我没有几十万或几百万的关注者，但我有一群非常专业的听众。
Like the heads of water providers who could actually put his ideas into action.
比如那些可以真正将想法付诸实践的水务供应商的负责人。
Now, when it comes to our water question, it's important to acknowledge that water utilities do actually raise rates. In fact, the rates for water are rising faster than inflation. But Manny says water in the U.S. is still really cheap.
现在，谈到我们的水问题，重要的是要承认水务公司确实会提高费率。事实上，水费上涨的速度快于通货膨胀。但曼尼说，美国的水费仍然很便宜。
Water might account for 1%, maybe 2% of your household budget. The problem is that's not true for everyone. For people with low income, water eats up something like 7% of their budget.
水费可能占家庭预算的1%甚至2%。问题是，这并不适用于所有人。对于低收入人群来说，水费占他们预算的7%左右。
And that's what's stopping many utilities from really raising rates. Charging more would hurt the customers who can't afford it.
这就是阻止许多公用事业公司真正提高费率的原因。收取更高的费用会伤害那些买不起水费的客户。
The challenge for utilities is, how do you help the low-income folks afford this essential service?
公用事业公司面临的挑战是，你如何帮助低收入人群负担得起这项基本服务？
The solution here might seem really simple, right? Just give a discount to the people who make less.
这里的解决办法可能看起来很简单，对吧？只要给收入较低的人打折就行了。
And Manny says that's exactly what a lot of water providers tried to do. The trouble is, utilities don't actually know who's making less.
曼尼说，这正是许多供水公司试图做的事情。问题是，公用事业公司实际上并不知道谁赚得少了。
And to find out means verifying someone's income and a lot of paperwork for everyone, so most customers never bother signing up.
而要找出答案就意味着要核实某人的收入，并为每个人准备大量文件，所以大多数客户根本不会费心去注册。
They're going to make a rational decision - is it worth me spending maybe hours collecting all this information, submitting it,
他们会做出理性的决定——我是否值得花几个小时收集所有这些信息，提交这些信息，
for the chance that I might get a $20- or $30-a-month break on my utility bill, for the chance that I might, and then I'll have to renew it again next year? They're just going to decide it's not worth it.
以获得每月20美元或30美元的公用事业费减免，然后明年我必须再次续订？他们会觉得这不值得。
Manny says participation rates for these discount programs are low. Getting just 30% of people who are eligible to sign up is considered a success.
曼尼说，这些折扣计划的参与率很低。只有30%的合格人员注册被认为是成功的。
But that still means a majority of the people these programs were meant to help are left out. So Manny came up with his own idea for how to sign up a lot more people.
但这仍然意味着这些计划旨在帮助的大多数人被排除在外。所以曼尼想出了他自己的主意，让更多的人注册。
Rather than trying to build an entire new income qualification program and all of the administrative processes, procedures, costs and burdens that come with that, what if we leveraged existing programs?
与其尝试建立全新的收入资格认证计划以及随之而来的所有行政流程、程序、成本和负担，不如利用现有计划？
Which is a fancy way of saying, just copy someone else's notes.
这是一种花哨的说法，只需复制他人的笔记即可。
Basically, there are already government agencies doing the hard work of vetting people for different welfare programs.
基本上，已经有政府机构在为不同的福利计划审查人员，这项工作很辛苦。
So utilities should just get their hands on those records and automatically give a discount to whoever's already been approved.
公用事业公司应该掌握这些记录，并自动为已获批准的人提供折扣。
You don't need to hire a whole bunch of staff people, and it's simple for the participant. They don't have any more paperwork to fill out.
您不需要雇用一大群工作人员，这对参与者来说很简单。他们没有更多的文书工作要填写。
And if you're going to copy someone else's homework, why not go to the best kid in class? Manny says that means turning to SNAP. Officially, that's the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program.
如果你要抄作业，为什么不去找班上最好的孩子呢？曼尼说，这意味着求助于补充营养援助计划（SNAP）。
And unofficially, we're talking food stamps. Manny picked SNAP because participation rates are very high - like 80% nationally. Manny put this idea in one of his blog posts. And then, months later...
我们一般说的是食品券。曼尼选择SNAP是因为参与率非常高——全国参与率高达80%。曼尼在他的一篇博客文章中提出了这个想法。然后，几个月后……
I saw an AP story about Jackson's new water rates. And I'm reading this and I'm going, wow, that looks really familiar. They copied the homework about copying the homework.
我看到了一篇关于杰克逊市新水价的美联社报道。我读到这篇文章时，不禁想，哇，这看起来真的很熟悉。他们抄袭了关于抄作业的作业。
Yeah. The head of Jackson, Mississippi's water provider was listening and copying. Last year, Ted Henifin was trying to figure out a way to keep bills down for low-income customers.
密西西比州杰克逊市供水公司的负责人正在倾听和模仿。去年，泰德·海尼芬(Ted Henifin)试图找到一种方法来降低低收入客户的水费。
And he read Manny's blog and thought, let's give it a shot. Here he is announcing the plan.
他读了曼尼的博客，心想，让我们试一试。他在这里宣布了这个计划。
We really think it's a better way to deal with water bills across the country. And giving Manny his flowers.
我们真的认为这是解决全国水费问题的更好方法。
There's a professor out of University of Wisconsin. Manny Teodoro has been studying this at length.
威斯康星大学有一位教授。曼尼·特奥多罗一直在研究这个问题。
Now, Jackson's water troubles are like an extreme version of the rest of the country. In 2022, the city went nearly seven weeks without safe-to-drink tap water because its main treatment plant failed.
现在，杰克逊的水资源问题就像是全国其他地区的极端版本。2022年，由于主要处理厂出现故障，该市近七周没有安全饮用的自来水。
JXN Water's version of Manny's plan includes raising rates to cover its debt and infrastructure repairs. But most customers on SNAP would automatically get a $30 discount, so their bills would be cheaper.
JXN Water版本的曼尼计划包括提高费率以偿还债务和基础设施维修。但大多数SNAP客户将自动获得30美元的折扣，他们的账单会更便宜。
So this was it - a real-world version of Manny's plan set for prime time.
这就是Manny计划的真实版本，定于黄金时段播出。
Well, that was the plan, anyway, but that plan ran into a big roadblock - the federal government - specifically, the Department of Agriculture and the DOJ. They said a water utility should not have free access to whoever's on SNAP.
无论如何，这就是计划，但该计划遇到了一个大障碍——联邦政府——具体来说，农业部和司法部。他们说，水务公司不应该为任何参加SNAP的人提供免费服务。
So we called Manny Teodoro back up, and he seemed to be taking it about as well as expected. Lawyers, man. No comment. Don't want to get in trouble with any lawyers.
我们又打电话给曼尼·特奥多罗，他似乎像预期的那样接受了这个计划。律师，伙计。无可奉告。不想和任何律师发生冲突。
Now, the Department of Justice said it would be happy to work with JXN Water for a version of the plan where people could opt in to sharing their SNAP status, rather than the original automatic version.
现在，司法部表示很乐意与JXN Water合作，制定一个计划版本，人们可以选择分享他们的SNAP状态，而不是原来的自动版本。
But Manny says having people opt in instead of getting the discount automatically means needing to advertise the benefit and then still getting people to do that pesky paperwork.
但Manny说，让人们选择加入而不是自动获得折扣意味着需要宣传这项福利，然后仍然让人们做那些烦人的文书工作。
The fight over this plan has really escalated. The Department of Agriculture threatened to cut off the entire state of Mississippi from SNAP. Manny says this is a profoundly troubling threat.
围绕这项计划的争斗确实升级了。农业部威胁要切断整个密西西比州的SNAP。曼尼说，这是一个令人深感不安的威胁。
The idea that a federal agency would cut off benefits to an entire state is really disturbing - and honestly, perplexing.
联邦机构会切断整个州的福利，这种想法确实令人不安，老实说，也令人困惑。
The Justice Department said it wouldn't comment while there's still litigation going on.
司法部表示，在诉讼仍在进行中时，它不会发表评论。
But in court filings, it said giving this information to a private water utility would violate people's privacy, and betraying that trust could lead to fewer people signing up.
但在法庭文件中，它表示将这些信息提供给私人供水公司会侵犯人们的隐私，而背叛这种信任可能会导致更少的人签约。
We wanted to ask people in Jackson - who this water plan was meant to help - what they thought. And that's how I met Howard Lewis.
我们想问问杰克逊的居民，这个供水计划旨在帮助谁，他们是怎么想的。这就是我认识霍华德·刘易斯（Howard Lewis）的方式。
Good morning. How you doing? I'm fine this morning. And you? Lewis.
早上好。你好吗？我今天早上很好。你呢？刘易斯。
Howard was waiting at a food bank, so it seems like he needed help, but here's the thing - he's not enrolled in SNAP.
霍华德正在一家食品银行等候，看起来他需要帮助，但问题是他没有参加SNAP。
You see, how much you get from SNAP depends on how much you make, and it might not be worth the paperwork.
从SNAP获得多少取决于你赚了多少钱，而且可能不值得做文书工作。
If I get SNAP-ped, what good is it going to do me? Because it seems like you might get a water discount, too.
如果我得到了SNAP，这对我有什么好处？因为看起来你也可能得到水费折扣。
Water discount? Shucks. No, that discount is kind of, like I said, unfair. It'd be unfair. Do - help everybody. Don't be, you know, just some people.
水费折扣？哎呀。不，就像我说的，这种折扣有点不公平。这不公平。应该帮助所有人。不要只帮助某些人。
The thing is, participation in SNAP can vary a lot state to state. Mississippi has one of the lowest. Only about 60% of people eligible in the state actually get SNAP.
问题是，各州参与SNAP的程度可能有很大差异。密西西比州是最低的州之一。该州只有大约60%符合条件的人真正获得了SNAP。
So relying on SNAP to decide who deserves help covering their water bill in Jackson means leaving out a lot of people who need help. And Manny acknowledges that.
依靠SNAP来决定谁应该得到帮助来支付杰克逊的水费意味着会遗漏很多需要帮助的人。曼尼承认这一点。
That's a reasonable concern. My response would always be, OK, compared to what? You know, what's the alternative?
这是一个合理的担忧。我的回答总是，好吧，与什么相比？还有什么替代方案？
A federal judge supported JXN Water's position. The Department of Justice is appealing.
一名联邦法官支持JXN Water的立场。司法部正在上诉。
In the meantime, customers can still get that discount by proving they're on SNAP - not exactly paperwork, but still more work than Manny or JXN Water wants customers doing to make their water bills affordable.
与此同时，客户仍然可以通过证明自己参加了SNAP计划来获得折扣，虽然这不完全是文书工作，但仍然比曼尼或JXN Water希望客户为降低水费所做的工作要多。
