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Hi, everyone. Today we have in our studio two guests from Casa Prosecco, China.

Casa Prosecco is an organization set up with the aim of promoting the Prosecco DOC brand. They are going to be sharing with us a lot of their interesting experiences in promoting Prosecco in the Chinese market. Welcome to the show Feiling, welcome to the show Roger.

Hi. Dear.

Hi everyone.

First of all, I know that Feiling you are in charge of Casa Prosecco, China, right?

Yes, Lulu.

So could you, first of all, tell us what kind of organization is Casa Prosecco?

Sure, dear. Casa Prosecco is the office of Prosecco DOC Consortium in China, which was founded in March 18th, 2016, the main business of Casa Prosecco is to promote all types of activities and events according to the strategic planning and the instructions from the Consortium.

We know Prosecco is a very famous wine type, but why Casa, Casa means family, house in Italian?

Yes, Casa means family, you're right, but I’d like to tell you a story, ok, back story, the headquarter of Prosecco DOC Consortium is in the world city Treviso, the hometown of tiramisu.

Oh, Treviso.

I'm sure that you’ll like it.

Yes, Treviso, where is only 29 kilometers away from Venice, the romantic capital. Venice is the birthplace of Italian traveler Marco Polo. Everyone know that, right? Yeah, he came to China with his father in 1275, and was fascinated by Chinese brilliant history and culture. Later he wrote very famous The Travels of Marco Polo, which praised the prosperity of China for its developed industry and commerce, bustling market, magnificent capital.

Since then, Italians believe that the Silk Road starts from Venice, and finally, it’s in Chang'an, now my city Xi'an; so, our back story is Silk Road story, history is never far from us.

That's very interesting because Feiling, I was actually gonna ask you, I know that Casa Prosecco China was founded in Xi'an, that was actually my second question, like why Xi’an.

Now you're saying the back story is grand, kind of like a modern-day Silk Road connection. I like that. It's always nice to be able to trace back in the history and find the connection between China and Italy and through Prosecco of all things, very nice.

But I know that Casa Prosecco China also has other offices, right? Roger, you are from the Xiamen office, right? You're based in Xiamen.

Yeah, exactly. That was like a few years ago we set up the Casa Prosecco in Xiamen. The reason behind it is quite simple as well, naval city Quanzhou and it's the Silk Road on the sea. So this is another part to start the relationships. This is relationship we get started.

And the second point I summarize by myself is because Xiamen people are very hospitable, very passionate; have a great attitude towards everything that is probably the second reason that we have this one over here, so by the seaside. You know Yeah.

Very open and perhaps also a very, very nice and sort of comfortable lifestyle. I've heard so many great things about Xiamen, always wanted to go for a visit.

Yes, sometimes even myself I mixed up myself with… am I in 鼓浪屿island or in Venice, sometimes I mix myself up.

So now we have both the Silk Road and Maritime Silk Road, so Silk Roads on the sea. That is such an interesting story.

Yes, it is dear. And I also want to add something more. So luckily, our cooperated Italian company also named Marco Polo, whom we can see our contemporary Marco Polo the company inherits the tradition and also exchange culture between China and Italy.

At the same time, the Prosecco DOC Consortium is looking forward to promote Prosecco in China. Our team are working together with the Consortium more like a family. So on March 2016, our first Prosecco DOC master class hold in Xi'an. Roger later organized our office in Xiamen and Michael in Chengdu.

You know I must mention the famous singer聂红梅. She was born in Shanxi and lived in Italy for more than 20 years. She is a real messenger of Sino Italian culture exchange. Recently she produced 100 episodes of documentary Chang'an and Rome. She leaded the young Marco Polo team into China and landed Casa Prosecco in Xi’an.

I do appreciate what she did for Casa Prosecco.

Such a beautiful background story, not just the idea of importing a product, but actually connecting two cultures. And our two cultures basically go way back in history to Marco Polo time even before that.

Let's move on to this fascinating drink Prosecco. When did Chinese start to drink Prosecco? When did Prosecco start to really come into the Chinese market？I'm sure a lot of my listeners, a lot of our audience, they actually have heard of Prosecco but just not really familiar with the drink.

I think your question is not easy to answer when, but I’d like to give you information. Our Consortium was established in July 17th 2009. After founding, the Consortium published a series of regulations for the production and marketing.

So I believe Chinese start to drink Prosecco from the first imported bottle, but it is really getting popular in recent 10 years.

You know what, as a consumer, as a wine lover myself, I didn't notice that there are more and more Prosecco in the market, in bars, in restaurants, in perhaps the past, maybe 5 or 6 years, obviously part of it it's your tireless work to promote Prosecco in the Chinese market.

This question is really tricky, because when we talk about Prosecco, when did they found it or invent it, it can be tracked back 2,000 years ago, alright, so basically 2,000 years ago, people started to drink Prosecco.

The Consortium of the Prosecco founded on 2009, which there has been fighting these for like 60 years or more. And then eventually they found their own appellation and then to set up the Prosecco Consortium. But you cannot erase like 2,000 years ago, we may already have Prosecco and brought by some visitors, such as Marco Polo brought this wine into China. So we may drink this wine since or before Marco Polo in China.

So from my point of view, it's been here for a long time.

Maybe people just didn't know it was Prosecco they were drinking.

Exactly.

But over the long course of history between China and Italy, there’re bound to be some sort of integration there. I like that, to think that you're drinking something that probably was brought in so long ago.

But although that Prosecco is getting more popular in the Chinese market, there are still lots of common misconceptions, misunderstandings, confusions about Prosecco, right? I know for a fact, when it comes to sparkling wine, people get really confused in China, especially if you're not big drinker; and I've heard people calling Prosecco champagne, I've heard people calling other sort of a sparkling wine as Prosecco.

I think Roger you can answer this question, what are the common misunderstandings, misconceptions Chinese consumers have about Prosecco?

Well, I can speak this for the whole day by going through like these ten or more years of my education of wine in China. And then I've been through a lot because most people they really mix up the sparkling wine with champagne, which by just looking in the head of the bottle, they say this fancy, big, wooden head with some wire and then they think this is champagne.

And then they don't really realize this is not a champagne until they look at the price because champagne normally is quite expensive, if we’re just talking about the price; and then Prosecco is around 100 to 150-ish.

True.

And Moscato d'Asti is more close to 60 to 100 or more even more, it depends on the appellation. This is average price.

Then you did mention Moscato d’Asti, that's another type of sparkling wine in Italy, right? But it's very, very sweet.

Yeah, it's quite sweet because they only go through one fermentation, so the style makes it more fruity and sweetness.

If we're looking for the really quality, Moscato d'Asti, there has to be a very, very good acidity to go with it. Yeah. I love to have it with my Tiramisu, it’s awesome.

There is still a very big difference between a proper bottle of Prosecco and what we call “小甜水”.

Yeah, exactly. I will spend another day for you to explain the differences for this.

This Prosecco topic continues, don't worry.

But the next question is probably for Feiling, where and how do Chinese drink Prosecco, for what kind of scenarios or events?

Yeah, you're right. Usually, our people drink Prosecco in restaurant, bars and sometimes at home for birthday party or at banquet, it is casual drinks for barbecue and even hot pot.

Wow, hot pot!

It is necessary for a celebration and formal events. We drink a lot or with everyone.

I think this is the great thing about bubbly drink, it just feel very festive.

You're right.

It's for celebrations, like you said. And it’s also, I like the idea of replacing beer with Prosecco when you're eating something like hot pot, and then it's sort of takes the greasiness and that spiciness of the food, right?

Yes, I agree with you.

Good, good, but who is the average prosecco drinker in China? How old are they, are they men or women? I guess they're mostly women, no?

According to our survey results, the average age is between 20 to 40. Most of them are women. You're right.

20 to 40 and mostly women, that is exactly my audience. I think they're perfect. They are going to love Prosecco.

That's why we are here, dear Lulu. So Prosecco drinkers are mainly concentrated in coastal cities and first-tier cities, some second-tier cities, for example, Hangzhou and Xi'an. But for sure Xiamen.

Coastal areas, that is kind of matching my perceptions. But Roger, I’m gonna ask you an extra question, from a gentleman's perspective and also from a wine expert’s perspective, what's stopping men from drinking Prosecco? Why aren't more men drinking Prosecco?

Lulu, I mean this is kind of a discrimination, we men should love Prosecco as well. I’ll tell you a story, but from my experience, indeed quite a lot of gentleman, ageof like 30 above more like to have red wine, you know the heavy style, Burdeos, Barbaresco, Amarone, this sort of really heavy red wine because the taste has been changing, and they believe the red colors to bring a lot more luck and fortune, to be honest.

Oh, really?

And quite… you didn't know that? You should try…

I didn't know that.

Anyway, I mean most of the gentlemen I referred to, they sometimes smoke, so their taste bud starting to get heavier and insensitive. So they prefer to have a glass of whiskey or a glass of like heavy wines, even a lot more expensive wine to express the glory and fortune they have, right?

This is some part of it. It's not all the part of it. I had really great experience with the guys who enjoy coffee, who enjoy different perfume, who working in the water industry you know or tea.

You know in Fujian so many people enjoy tea, these people they really fancy testing something different, so Prosecco which is like really beautiful fragrance, lots of fruitiness. And these are something that they are looking for.

So I have quite a lot audience they follow me or students they follow me because they want to explore that sort of very gentle, very complex…

Elegance, isn’t it.

Elegance, I love this word ‘elegance’.

Yeah.

True.

The other observation that I have, adding on to what you said about men prefer heavier probably like a stronger taste. I think the other thing is the association or misassociation that anything with bubbles tend to be more a feminine drink, drinks for girls, girls drink bubbles.

That sort of idea think you do see it a lot in China. I know that Roger you worked in different markets like in Europe, you had extensive experience there as well. So is there such a thing where people connect bubbly wine with being feminine with girly?

No, that is nonsense. I've been working in the hospitality industry like for more than 10, 15 years, as a restaurant manager, I organized and directed quite a lot different banquet activities like wedding, etc, especially before a very formal dinner, people would love to go for some bubbles, because the bubbles always have the beautiful acidity; and nice bubbles can refresh your palate, then bringing into the next level to start with, you can bring…

Appetites.

Yes, exactly, they can bring up your appetites and then you can feel wow I'm hungry. My palate now really need some really nice food to get into my stomach. So bubble, including champagne, it's really, really popular as a pre-dinner drink in western style.

Yeah, I totally get what you're saying. I think Prosecco is a perfect welcome drink. If you're having a banquet and then when the guests arrive the first drink, when they're just mingling, going around talking to people, what you're gonna have is not a very, very strong red. What you're gonna have is bubbly, something light, something elegant, it's just something to get you going, so maybe more men should really open up.

Exactly. Something quite fruity so help you… sometimes when you get really hungry, you cannot consume too much alcohol, Prosecco is just like around 11 or 12 percentage of alcohol.

It's really good enough for you to bring up your appetite if you don’t feel hungry, but consume a little bit of the sweetness and fruitiness.

So if you are a gentleman and listening to this, Prosecco is perfect for you as well. Since you were mentioning champagne, this is actually the next question I'm going to ask. Champagne Prosecco, both are sparkling wines. So what makes Prosecco special?

From my point of view, the Prosecco, it is the image of the fashion, because more and more young generation who are keen on this popular drinks, fashion style and fashion life.

Secondly, compared with other types of wine, Prosecco has low alcohol level and it is not easy to get drunk. For our ladies, we always want to keep the elegance.

Thirdly, I think that Prosecco has its unique taste, fresh and natural. It is not complex and easy drinking;

So last but not the least, it can be provided in any sense of environment and can be matched with any food.

Also, as Roger mentioned, compared with the price, Prosecco’s more competitive than champagne.

Much better value for money.

Yes, much better value.

Sounds like it's a very versatile drink and matches all sorts of scenarios and food.

And Roger I'm sure you have something to add as well.

When you drink something, you have to think about your wallet first, you got a very huge wallet, you go for champagne, no one can stop you, right? As the situation global like pandemic, it's not really in the positive economic situation. So why don't we try something easier to drink?

It's more on the tip of the fashion area. Italy is always on top or two of the fashion world, a lot more competition, for example, like sailing or motor cycling, fancy, assignment sports. They are starting to use Prosecco instead of champagne for the champion who spread in the world. You can see that all the times, right?

So I would say from my point of view, because I'm getting with so many different audiences all the time. To me, I personally love Champagne. There's no problem at all. It's a classic drink, but it's more like a grandfather's drink for me.

It's a bit old fashioned, isn't it, classic but old fashion.

Yeah, it's a bit old fashion. I would like to say Prosecco is more friendly, easy to drink, easy to accept it, more fruit instead of a lot of yeast.

It's interesting that you mentioned that champagne, perhaps it's more complex and you might not really like it. If you don't really know a lot about wine or tasted a lot of wine, but Prosecco is super beginner friendly.

I appreciate what you say about complex. This is exactly the explanation for champagne tasting, because back into my study in London for WACT I mean first time I get to contact champagne, and I almost puke, because this is that too heavy and too complex to me, exactly what you're saying.

And there's a really good quality of Prosecco as well, but there's something important is they add up or they keep a lot more fruitiness into the wine that makes it easier to be drunk.

Honestly, I'm starting to picture this in my head like the Downton Abbey style, everyone's super dressed up， and then you like holding champagne and then having a really sort of posh conversation.

But on the other side, you have all these young fashionable people in these social events in Milan or in London, sipping Prosecco.

All right, let's continue. But let's move a little bit away from the drink itself. Let's move on to some of these events. What kind of memorable experiences have you had promoting Prosecco in China? What kind of events are we talking about? Let's ask Feiling first.

We did a lot of events and activities since the year 2016, catering to the general public and people in the industry. For example, Prosecco Master Class and professional training in 西安, 上海, 北京, 烟台, 成都, 厦门, 重庆, 香港, and 台湾.

And also we do Prosecco music concert in 西安 and 成都 and also we have wonderful Prosecco nights in Embassy Italian 北京 and 重庆. We also published our book named Prosecco on Road.

And we cooperated with so many museum in China, for example, Xi'an Terracotta Horses and various museum, 成都 三星堆rooms.

Can I just ask that is very intriguing, I would never have put Terracotta Warrior and Prosecco or any wine together. What was that event like?

Yeah, we also invited some very famous museum...

Curator?

Yeah, to visit China museum. We just exchange, you know, we move Italian Pompeii Museum.

Pompeii?

Yes, also show their relics in the museum of 三星堆. 三星堆 I remember last 2 years also moved to Roman museum in the Medici museum. (美第奇)

Oh, Medici Museum

They get exchanged. For Prosecco, we just to make the promotion and try to assist them for the finance and for the celebration. In Italy, it's very common after training or after class we must have…

Have a celebration, yes.

Yes, and even in the museum, you know Prosecco with Terracotta Warrior and the Horses, you feel that the long history, you really moved by the scenery.

I love that perspective, because I mean food and drink, this has always been a major part of culture; and obviously all these artifacts, that's definitely historical relics; and to combine these and to be able to sponsor and organize and facilitate these events sounds amazing.

Exactly, and also Prosecco traveling, we took Chinese importers to visit the winery in Prosecco DOC area.

Sounds great.

And furthermore, we hold at least hundreds of times of tasting for prosecco. Even these 2 years, we still insist on doing online tasting and virtual tasting.

Sounds like a great idea, even during the pandemic, why stop enjoying the great wine, right.

Yeah.

And Roger, I know for a fact that you host or you're in charge of probably different types of events, probably more smaller scale, more like parties. Am I right?

Touch the ground. Yeah, true, talking about memory of experience, there’re actually quite a lot. There was so much fun actually, but one impressed me most would be by the end of 2020, the first Rose Prosecco released, which is a pink color Prosecco with the grapes of the Pinot Noir, it’s global release at the end of the 2020.

Right after our new year, and then I organize a barbecue party for the new release of the Prosecco Rose in my seaside restaurant in Xiamen. We had a barbecue feast, with the best sea view and sunny weather. The Rose Prosecco is just perfect because it provides the more textures and complicity to the meals, plus it's close to the summertime, a chilled Rose Prosecco just bring you a beautiful and sexy color.

It also cools you down a lot. So everyone’s singing and dancing, and we had a great fun for the whole day.

Sounds like a great event. Actually, I noticed both you and Feilig were mentioning barbecue, that brings me to another question. Since you guys at Casa Prosecco is all about educating consumers, can you actually recommend a few common food pairings for Prosecco.

I would say in Italy, this is something in their blood. I would like to share with you what sort of Chinese cuisine would go well with Prosecco. As you say, barbecue is really nice because most of barbecue we concentrate on meat, oily, the meaty feeling and you have that some acidity and fruitiness to wash away those uncomfortable…

To balance it off.

Exactly. And then another point, which Feiling just mentioned about the hot pot. When I’m talking about hot pot, I really mean it must be a really, really spicy one. The reason behind it, first of all, it’s acidity.

Prosecco has a really high acidity with the green apple and lime or lemon flavor and then to help you to remove the oily feeling from the hot pot.

The second one is the sweetness, because most of the Prosecco are marked as extra dry. This is the term that shows the Prosecco with efficient sweetness in there, which means not too much but it contains a very soft and gentle touch of the sweetness, will help you to reduce the painful feeling come after the spiciness.

I think this is why Feiling earlier was saying that we can use Prosecco to replace beer.

Yeah, we do have to, because the beer has all different fatness, however Prosecco is the nature fermenting fruit drink, and that helps you a lot to reduce this sort of unhealthy things.

And then last but not least, the nature bubble that generated from the nature fermentation process would also help you to refresh the palate all the time. If you want to remove yourself into the next dishes, have another sip of the Prosecco. They help you to…

Cleanse your Palate.

Exactly.

Ok, I think we've really covered a lot already, but since we have been talking about food, I do also want to ask how does Casa Prosecco collaborate with restaurants and bars?

I'm quite sure every western style of restaurants nowadays in China, especially Italian restaurants…

Definitely have Prosecco.

Must have Prosecco, because this is like something really popular back into Europe, every restaurant, they get used to have some Prosecco to start with all the meals.

So it became like a customer tradition, so you don't even need to train lots western style restaurants to have this, they already have at least two or five brands in house already. And then for the bar, specifically like bar the sort of Relaxing Bar or…

Like the Wine Bar?

Wine bar has to have it, same, same, wine bar have to have it.

But for the same sort of like Rock Bar, let me… they prefer a little bit more for the beer or spirit in hand, sure, however I'm encouraging these things to happen because we have a whole set of Prosecco cocktails to be provided to people, and this is a really genius design.

Actually, I live in 鼓浪屿island. I had a bar. My bar has designed specifically for the 50 different parts of the Mojito, and some of them I use Prosecco to make a Mojito.

You use Prosecco to make Mojito?

Yes, and that is up to the heaven. Yes, and I will make some for you.

If I ever go, I would love to try that out. Definitely. That sounds amazing.

You’re gonna love it so much.

This sounds great. What about globally, Prosecco sales based on the stats you know, has it been going up in recent years?

Lulu you really get to the point, these really important figures I really want to show you. We started with China first, so since 2020, Prosecco imported to China almost doubled the importing figures and 217% up.

This is really, really something. According to this data, there's around 1,469,000 bottles of Prosecco being imported into China. This is amazing.

So during the pandemic?

Yeah, I’d love to show you another figure. In 2020, the worldwide sale, champagne sold 100 million bottles, and you guess how many Prosecco has been sold.

Based on the data you offered about China. I would say worldwide would probably be at least 10 times that of champagne.

No, that much, but 5 times, is it big enough for you.

Five times…

500 million, 500 million Prosecco sold worldwide, Close to 600 million naturally.

Even in the world, it’s getting more and more popular, really, especially in the recent years I've noticed.

Ok, as we're coming towards the end of our talk, I would like to ask both of you, how do you see the future of Prosecco, and also the future of Casa Prosecco?

I’d like to show you the numbers you know 2021, this is from observation economic of Prosecco. These are the new numbers.

Last year, the production of Prosecco bottles that is 627 million, before we were talking about 500 million you know, but now 627 million bottles, turnover around 3 billion.

I have no doubt for the bright future in China, because more and more people who love the Prosecco and also we’re continuously have more trading and tasting and also let them to feel more and really enjoy the life of bubble, enjoy the life of Prosecco.

So I'm full of confidence for the future Prosecco market in China.

I'm sure there will be a sparkling future. And Roger, you have something to add.

The Prosecco sold so much in the world. However, when it comes into China, it's only taken 1% of the whole world sales. I would love to say this is a huge potential to have Prosecco to grow in China. There's another thing I had to say which is the global warming now is raising a lot. You have a glass of the Prosecco in hand it's so essential to cool you down a lot.

I like the way you're thinking, I've learned so much from both of you, honestly, and I'm not just saying this, I personally am a huge lover of Prosecco, even when I have other options of sparkling wine, I will always choose Prosecco; and there's nothing better than Prosecco on like a hot summer day, especially if sitting in a restaurant like Roger’s, looking at the beautiful view with some good friends.

And sunshine.

Exactly, exactly.

And I'm sure Prosecco is going to have just as sparkling a future in China.

Thank you so much. Thank you Feiling, thank you Roger for coming to the show and sharing with us all these wonderful stories about Casa Prosecco and Prosecco.

Thank you, dear lulu. Thank you.

It's been the pleasure.

Yeah, My pleasure.