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Hi, everyone. And welcome back to the Sound of Musicals. 欢迎回来【曲外之音】. Hi, Oliver.

Hello again.

This is our Part Two of Hamilton. The musical that you guys have been requested. Although for both me and Oliver, we have to admit that I wouldn't say this is my favorite.

I do have to agree it's not my favorite, but it's still very good.

Yes, the music is very good I give you that. And last time when we were talking about the storyline, and then Oliver you mentioned that although you loved the music, but the story you're not very familiar with, but that's history, right？And you are history buff. When you didn't learn that part of the history, I mean in school in the UK you guys don't learn that part of the history?

We do learn it, but not in the same way as American students would learn it. It is the founding of their nation. They would learn it. I imagine they would learn it (in depth) in detail and in depth. Yes, they'd know lots of different people who did this and why, and in the UK we have much more of a broad view of history, and we look at big time periods. So studying the American War of Independence or the American Revolution, whichever you want to call it, we would study 100 years and a lot happens in 100 years.

So we can't take too much time to focus on specific people. We would look at the events caused it, what happened afterwards, but we wouldn't study, for example, Alexander Hamilton, he would not be in a UK school because, I don't want to say not important to the UK, but he's not a specific character in UK history.

Yeah. Honestly, I think there's patriotism. There's also that sense of national pride. I mean like, we said last time, every country has that type of works of art. If they put up a movie out or musical whatever you have it and then they focus on their own national history, and especially the founding of a nation, especially perhaps a very specific period in their national history. And it's not just to tell a story but also to evoke in their audience, in the audience in that nation to evoke a feeling of pride. That is your route.

Yeah, definitely so. Definitely something that people, American people and people in the US should be proud of. It's the founding of their nation, you should be proud of those things. Yeah, it's just not the entire world doesn't learn it in their schools. So there are going to be gaps in knowledge for people from different countries. It's the same with Chinese history for me. I like Chinese history but we don't learn it in UK schools though.

Exactly. I mean the other thing that I’ve noticed is that although a lot of these main characters, historically they're supposed to be white, but on stage they were played by clearly not white actors. That is intentional, right？It's not just because they just happened to have this actor or these actors.

No, it was definitely an intentional move, yes.

Historically, the founding fathers were all middle to upper class white men, but because of the way this show wants to become more modern, it wants to show modern America whilst telling a story of the founding of America intentionally chooses non-white actors to be these leading historical characters.

And I think it's fantastic. I think it's great because that with the music shows that it's the history of a country, it's not the history of an ethnic group. It doesn't matter where your family is from, or where your history and your roots is, because this is a shared history from all American people. And I think that's fantastic. I think it's brilliant how it brings Americans together.

Yeah, at least this is what they are aiming for. I mean whether it is idealistic or not. But they were making a conscious effort of trying to show cultural diversity, amalgamation of cultures, and styles as well.

You know, because if you think about hip-hop, rap, these are considered more or less, for lack of a better word, street music.

Yes, especially as in certain groups, it is seen as of not worthy of musicals. It's not a theater type of music, not a theater style, and (Yeah.) it has a cultural history to what is seen as the ethnic minorities in the US rather than the ethnic majority of white ethnic people.

And bringing that style of music into something which historically was an ethnically white scene basically. I think it's a brilliant way to tell the story because it is showing that the story is the story however you tell it. History is history. If you tell it through opera or rap or rock music or anything, it is still the history of America and I really enjoyed it.

Yeah, it's like breaking barriers in all senses of the word, breaking barriers, blurring the boundaries between, let's say, different ethnicities, or this “mainstream” like say mainstream art forms and then the more probably more down-to-earth art forms, the highbrow and the lowbrow that sort of mix.

I quite like that. I don't, there's one thing, honestly speaking, there's one reason why I like musical to start with instead of opera is because I think opera is just too far-fetched for me. It's a bit too highbrow for me. I like musical already because a musical is already more down-to-earth, much more down-to-earth, much more approachable than…compared with operas.

I agree. Yeah, opera is a little bit more sort of in the clouds in some aspects. But musicals are certainly not down-to-earth in all cases, some musicals have very strange and very surreal things happening. [Hmmm], no matter how… no matter what music they choose to use to show the story, it's very… unusual things can happen.

Okay. But then we digress. Let's bring it back.

Since we keep saying about the music is really what it's all about, maybe you have a different point of view on the historical facts is trying to convey, but the music can be appreciated by all. So would you like to share a few fantastic tunes in this with us？

Yes, there was a lot to choose from. I did really enjoy most of the music in this. One of my favorites is when Alexander Hamilton is recruited by George Washington to be the second in command, and the song is called Right Hand Man.

Right Hand Man. Yeah, just for our audience, right hand man is basically someone who is a direct aid to a boss.

Yes, right hand man is the person who you turn to first. You give them the important jobs because you trust them the most, they are the most capable, it's the second in command. They are your number two.

Okay, and this one was um, a rap.

It was, yes, a rap with a very an interesting way of setting the scene of the War of Independence, the Revolution, because it talks about the battles, the fights, the things is happening and Washington’s doing. And it talks about cannons firing. And it's a fantastic way of setting the scene for the war. Yeah, it was really well done, I think.

Okay, let's listen to that bit.

You really wouldn't have thought that, if you really think was happening back then, you really wouldn't have thought that they would be rapping.

No, at the time there certainly wasn't, but I think it works really well, especially within this musical to set the scene, to sell the story, to introduce George Washington and to continue the story of Alexander Hamilton.

Yeah, you know what, I really like. I love the Cabinet Battles.

Yes, they are fantastic.

They're basically a debate. But in a form of, I don't know, should we call them raps or…?

It's a rap battle. It's brilliant.

It should actually be very serious political debate within a cabinet. However, it just is shown as a rap battle, it’s like a distract.

It is great. It is very, very funny to see this serious debate about the constitution. So this is when they are making the document that will set the path for the US, and in the serious situation, it's a rap battle and it's brilliant; and it shows the personalities of the two people, Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton, because Jefferson is much more not professional, but he holds back a little bit. He doesn't get angry or show emotions. He says bad things about Hamilton, but he still talks a lot about the constitution. And Hamilton comes back with an angry, an angry response, which is his personality showing too. (Much more aggressive.) Yes, much more aggressive.

Yeah, it is a political debate, and then Thomas Jefferson was saying things like very sarcastically, he comes across as being very sarky. He says,

If the shoe fits, wear it.

If New York’s in debt, why should Virginia bear it?

Our debts are paid, I’m afraid.

Don't tax the South cuz we got it made in a shade.

And he says,

You want to move our money around

This financial plan is an outrageous demand

And it's too many damn pages for anyone to understand.

And it says,

look, when Britain taxed our tea, we got frisky

Imagine what's gonna happen when you try to tax our whiskey [Yeah.]

It's just very cheeky. [It is.] Okay, let's listen to that bit.

When I listen to this, I was thinking if this is how history was taught when I was in school, like if my history teacher could have rapped like this, I probably would have paid more attention.

Yes, few points through this musical. I did feel like it was a middle school history teacher trying to be cool for the kids to get them to be interested. It had that feeling about it, especially when one character is rapping about what's happened over 10 or 5 or 10 years with the time jumps that happen, I feel like oh that's a history lesson. It's very good.

Yeah, the other one that I particularly like is Helpless when it talks about Elizabeth, Hamilton’s wife.

Yeah, it's a really good song and it shows the modern spin on the upper-class society of the time.

At the time, it was very much the sense of propriety, the rules were very strict. This is this and you can't move from the social norm, and it was really strict.

And this song is anything but that helpless and the one just before it of A Winter's Ball. Both are taking that idea of traditional strictness and turning it upside down.

Yeah. It really makes them sound just like, I don't know, like just very, very normal average young people in love and talking about men, woman dating.

And I especially love that in Helpless, Hamilton was saying to his wife to Eliza to his future wife, saying Eliza, I don't have $1 to my name, an acre of land. So basically, I have nothing. All I have is my honor, a tolerance for paying, a couple of college credits, and my top-notch brain.

When I was listening to this, I was like you sound very arrogant.

I know. I’ve got nothing at all, but I am amazing. So it's okay.

Yeah, but then he goes on. He goes into the very anecdotal things. He says

Insane, your family brings out a different side of me, Peggy confides in me, and Angelica tried to take a bite of me.

So Peggy and Angelica are his wife's sisters, basically his future sister-in-law. And historically that was rumor, right, that Hamilton was having something going on with Angelica?

Yes, there were rumors about it because they wrote letters to each other, and those letters were very flirtatious.

So rumors started to circulate, but there was no proof. I don't think there was any proof of that. No. But it was a rumor and another song in the show talks about Angelicas’ feelings for him. It's called Satisfied, which is another good one to listen to.

So let's just listen to that bit in Helpless.

Okay, I think there are so many amazing music scores in this, we cannot possibly give you all of them, but if you're interested, really check this musical out. It’s definitely not something you would expect, but it's something that I think you're definitely enjoy listening to or watching.

Definitely so. Yes, recently I spent two and a half hours listening to it. Because similarly to Les Mis, there's no or very little spoken word. It is all song.

So you can listen to the soundtrack and listen to the entire musical. There's no stops or gaps. It is the whole thing all the way through, which is great to listen to.

And the lyrics, a lot of the lyrics are really, I would say cheeky, but they are really clever.

They're very clever, and there's a lot of references are cultural and modern pop culture references. [Yeah.] Many of them I saw on the internet I don't understand because I don't have the right cultural knowledge or understanding, but I did know some of them. I remember they started rapping about Macbeth and I understood that which was quite funny.

But that's not a pop culture reference though.

No, not at all, but it is a reference. Yep.

I see. So if you wanna listen to and fully understand Hamilton, you might need to do a little bit of research as you listen to it.

But if you have already watched it or listened to it, leave us comment in the comment section, share with us which is your favorite music score. And thank you Oliver for coming to the show again.

Thank you for having me back again. It's always good.

We'll see you next time.

See you later.