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Hi everyone, and welcome back to Britain Under the Microscope.欢迎你回到《闲话英伦》。

Hello 安澜。

Hi, Lulu.

So 安澜 have you been following up on the recent news about Alibaba?

Yeah, I've been reading the reports about their drinking culture and also the case.

Yeah. The case, they are still going through the process, but we're not going to talk about the case today that just made me think about the whole酒局and whole劝酒文化.

And I was wondering if we can talk about the drinking culture in the UK.

Yeah, absolutely. I think we did discuss a little bit about pubs before, but we haven't really had a chat about the drinking culture and also attitudes to drinking really in the UK, have we？

Yeah, and I thought we can do a little bit of a comparison.

OK.

So first of all this idea 酒局, 安澜中文也很好, so you understand the Chinese meaning of it.

Yeah.

How would you translate that into English？

To be honest, it does not really have a translation.

Like drinking party?

Yeah kind of um, we would say drinks or get together, but if you say you go for drinks, it's normally quite informal.

Like with friends.

Yeah. It's certainly not a party, we wouldn't say a drinking party.

And what about, you know, that sort of situation where, let's say, you need to take out a client in that case, because in Chinese, when we say酒局, usually it's for a purpose, it's not just for fun, if you want to entertain your client.

Oh yep, England not so much. In a business context going for a drinking party isn't really acceptable. It would be a bit weird. Actually I remember when I was looking at cross cultural communication and things like that, they make a big thing about the drinking culture in China and how is it an accepted part going to a big party, drinking loads of toasts, drinking lots of 白酒, but in the UK we don't really have that equivalent, not in a business context, no.

Probably at most would just be a business dinner or like a banquet sometimes.

It would probably be just a business dinner, and you might go for drinks, but certainly not to the same competitive nature as in China.

I see, so talking about the attitudes towards drinking, based on my own experience you guys really can drink, you drink a lot.

Yes and no. The UK especially Britain does really have a reputation for drinking a lot.

就酒量很好呗。

Yeah，and even that we can't translate.

酒量, you cannot translate?

No. You can ask how much can you drink. But to be honest, I would say even though we do drink a lot, we do tend to think that drinking is something that we shouldn't do, it 's kind of like a guilty pleasure type of thing.

So even though you drink, a lot of people do drink every day, but you wouldn't go around bragging about your酒量, wouldn't say I can handle my liquor.

No, if someone does that, we just think that is a little bit pathetic, a little bit immature.

A bit strange.

A bit weird.

But you started early, I mean in general.

Well, in terms of history or in terms of age....

In terms of age.

Yeah, British people they do tend to drink when they are teenagers. So for example, I started to drink when I was about 13.

But I assume only like a sip or like a very small glass of beer, light beer or something.

Yeah normally like a very small beer, well, actually I didn't like beer back then. So it'll be a small glass of wine that you'd drink with your meal. But generally you wouldn't drink loads and you wouldn't get drunk. I think the first time I got drunk was when I was about16 17 or so .

Like close to university.

Close to university.

What about the attitude towards girls drinking or the difference between men and women？Because in China, I think especially in certain regions, it's men drinking is seen as acceptable or even encouraged; but women drinking it always has that social stigma.

Yeah, I've noticed that in China, and the UK had that as well, up until probably the 1990s?

But not so much now.

Not so much now, in the 90s, there was much more focus on things like cocktails, well, that's actually what cocktail was invented for...

For women.

It was invented for women.

鸡尾酒就是为了让女士喝酒看起来优雅一点。

Yeah, that's basically it. They were invented in the 1920s,1930s for women who wanted to have a drink, but they didn't want to be so clearly having a drink like they're just drinking a beer or scotch or spirit, so they made it into...

Like a fruity drink.

A fruity, kind of almost like a soft drink type of thing.

I see. And see, it's always the market behavior, isn't it？They want to promote cocktails and then women drinking became okay.

Yeah.

The other thing I would really like to discuss with you is like before when I was preparing students to go to the UK and I always say to them to make friends with British people, you kind of have to go to pubs because that's their main way of socializing？But does that mean that you are under the pressure to drink？Because if you go to pubs, you have to drink when other people are drinking？

No, no probably 20 years ago maybe. But nowadays not so much, there's actually a lot of people in the UK who are teetotalers.

Teetotalers?

Yes.

So non-drinkers.

They don't drink. Religious reasons, it could also just be for health reasons. It's like in the past, cigarettes and alcohol was seen as intertwined. Now you can't smoke, people are more conscious about their health, and fewer people are smoking and now those who held attitudes are going to drinking, so a lot of younger people actually don't drink.

So younger people actually drink less. Honestly, I think this is the same in China, the whole 劝酒 culture seems to be more with middle aged people and up. But one thing that I do need to clarify here is so say I'm in the UK, and then I'm going out with a bunch of colleagues or classmates, and then they say let's go to a pub, and then I go to a pub. If they're like Lulu, what do you want to drink？If I say, sorry, I don't drink. I'll just have a coke, I'll just have an orange juice, will people feel like I'm very扫兴.

No, they might ask, you know, oh, you don't drink, but generally as long as you are there, as long as you are talking to them, it doesn't really matter whatever you drink to be honest. And it's more socially acceptable now not to drink, it's not seen as so strange.

But remember when we were talking about pub culture, we said people would buy rounds of drinks就是要一轮一轮的买,不是每个人给自己单杯付钱的。So even if I drink soft drinks, I still need to buy rounds, so that as long as I pay for other people's drinks.

Exactly. But the thing is that nowadays there are so many more options that you go into a pub, I remember when I go to the UK sometimes I go into a pub and have a coffee because the coffee is so much cheaper than going into a cafe.

And they open very early.

And they open around 11 o'clock or so, so you can get there at 12 o'clock, it's very quiet and just have a coffee and have a bite to eat.

Sometimes you know when we watch TV shows or movies, you see, like people, especially young people, at university age they get around, they drink quite competitively and they force each other to drink.

Yeah. When I was in university, it was a bit like that. You know people just kept drinking and drinking and drinking, but I think that's the same for young people all over the world really.

But do you have like the American sort of like chug chug chug chug, a lot of people will gather around you, and they are sort of like cheering you on to drink copious amount of alcohol?

Not that much. For examples, in sports teams or football teams, I've been drinking with rugby teams and they do that. But generally, not really, it's... again, as I say, it's if you keep urging people to drink, if you are forcing people to drink and you're making a big thing about just getting drunk, it's just seen as rather immature.

Sounds very juvenile.

It does.

When you think about university kids, especially what you said all these in sports groups that's kind of like a niche culture, that is fine. But if you see a 30 40 year old and mature adult still forcing other people to drink, that's a bit strange and a bit sad.

It is a bit sad, it is a bit pathetic. You know, it's ... I admit, I do like to have a drink, I do like wine and I do like scotch, I do like beer, sometimes I do get a bit drunk, sometimes I might get a little bit hangover, but it's not something that I actually enjoy that much anymore. And I think that's the same for most people in Britain as well, it's not so much about getting drunk, it's about the quality of alcohol. That's why craft breweries is so popular.

Craft brewery, wine tasting..

Yeah, good wine, cocktails, all those type of things are very popular now because people are more concerned if they do drink they are more concerned about the quality, rather than just drinking to get drunk.

就是更愿意去品酒而不是豪饮.So that cleared it up it's more about going to the pubs does not equate with drinking heavily.

No. One of the things that in recent pandemic there was a huge discussion about when pubs would reopen when pubs are closing, and people might think oh, that's because British people just really want to drink. You can drink at home, it's a lot cheaper. But this is just the social aspect you go to a pub because you don't go to restaurants with friends.

You can't stay in restaurants in the UK for that long, not like in China you can really stay there the whole night.

In the UK it is very much you go to a pub. Even if you don't drink, you'll still go to a pub, and there are plenty of very nice pubs that do have good selection of non-alcoholic or low alcoholic drinks.

This is what I've noticed, because in the UK because of the weather, you don't really have a cafe culture. You can't really have a cafe culture because sit outside is raining; restaurant like you said, you finish your meal and then you leave, you don't stay there for like forever. It's just the pubs that's one of the main ways to socialize with your colleagues, with your friends, with your classmates.

And also your family as well. You go to a pub with your family, you go to a pub with your parents, as in China it's a bit hard to imagine someone taking their parents to a bar but in the UK it's very very natural.

And to finish today's discussion I would like to ask you about when you actually have a drink, you're with someone, you don't do bottoms up, 不会干杯吧.

No. That's just seen as again in the UK it seems a little bit...

Juvenile?

Immature, yes.

Okay. Then what would people say? Would they just say cheers？

Yeah, they'll just say cheers, your health.

Your health? So you're drinking alcohol and wishing each other good health, isn't that a bit contradictory?

Well, a little bit but…

All right, so that's our talk about the drinking culture in the UK. Honestly, I think like you said the drinking culture in China is changing as well, I think the younger generation are much more health conscious.

Yeah I remember when I first came to China you go to a party and it's always the idea that you just have to drink and generally it's normally 白酒 which I don't really like very much.

I think that's also why now there is this push back against the whole劝酒文化, the whole酒局文化.On that note, we're gonna wrap up here, if you have anything to share about the drinking culture in China, in your region or anywhere else that you have been to in the world, leave us comment in the comment section. Thank you 安澜 for coming to the studio.

Thanks a lot. And until next time.

See you next time, bye.

Bye.