L: Hello again, and welcome back to Britain Under the Microscope Advanced.
A: Hello, everyone.
L: So last time, Allan, we were talking about universities in England, in the UK. Let's expand on that topic, because it's a huge topic.
A: Absolutely. One of the things we didn't talk about in the last episode about universities was about tuition fees.
L: Oh, tuition fees. Yes. I think a few years ago, there was a huge protest because they hacked up tuition fee so much in the UK.
A: Oh, yeah. If you consider that about 20 years ago, 25 years ago, tuition fees, there was no such thing in the UK as tuition fee. Universities were free. But now, home students have to pay around 9,000 pounds in tuition fees every year.
L: 9,000 pounds, even for English students?
A: Yeah, English and EU students.
L: Oh. I always thought it was just international students they overcharge. So it's even home students?
A: Absolutely.
L: Up to 9000 pounds. That's still a lot of money for just normal average English families.
A: Oh, yeah. There are a lot of students that they do rely on their parents'money. But there are lots of students, they have to take out student loans as well.
L: Student loans offered by the government?
A: Em, offered by the government, but also supported by private bankers as well.
L: There is an interest.
A: There is a very slight interest, so yeah.
L: There's a low interest, does it change?
A: It depends on when you went to university, but at the moment, students are coming now with a debt about 40,000 pounds according to the news.
L: Yeah, I mean if you have to pay 9,000 pounds in university fees every year, then I would assume it's a huge debt.
A: It was huge debt, that's a debt that they start off their life with, you know, they have to find a job, they have to find housing in a lot of cases, so it's a huge debate in the UK at the moment about the tuition fees.
L: It sounds like a really like a tough life for students.
A: Yeah.
L: There is one other concern, because you know now education is becoming more like a product rather than before, so because it is a product, so students are no longer students, sometimes they are seeing as customers.
A: Oh, yeah, that's the biggest change. In the past, there was a very clear line between the university and the student, but now consumers had its affection, it's a big thing. So it's a big topic at the moment. I read an article a few days ago, and it was saying only about 37% of university students were satisfied with their course.
L: So as customers, they are not satisfied.
A: No, because the universities, they are not willing to change their outlook.
L: They haven't change their outlook, so they are still trying to use the old method.
A: Oh, they are. And it's just not as successful, because students are much more critical.
L: Of course, if they are paying that much, they'll be more critical, I think it's just the same in China.
A: Oh, absolutely. And also It's a lot more stressful going to universities nowadays. So my parents' generation going to university, they would be expected, maybe to travel, to try lots of things.
L: Gap year.
A: Gap year as well. Now it becomes a lot rarer.
L: Oh, if they are settled with students debt.
A: Student debt and also they focus a lot more on their studies because they are spending so much money, so they want make sure they come out with best degree possible.
L: So is it easy to get a degree?
A: It is easy to get a degree, but it's not easy to get a good degree.
L: What do you mean a good degree? Isn't that just getting a degree are not getting a degree?
A: Not in England, no. That's because we don't have a pass-fail system. So we have what we call different classes of degree.
L: Oh.
A: So for example, the top is a 1st, then you have a 2-1, and then you have a 2-2, then you have a 3, which is…
L: Fail.
A: Well, it's not fail, because you will still get a degree, but it's you just barely get a degree.
L: OK, so in that system, if you want to get a good job, what kind of degree do you need to get?
A: To get a good job or to go on to your masters, you need at least a 2-1.

L: So there must be a lot more pressure to get a first or at least a 2-1
A: The competition for jobs is quite intense, and not to mention that you are paying so much money as well, so that's always at the back of your mind.
L: How long will it take for you to work it off essentially.
A: Well, essentially, yeah.
L: I think it's a common problem. It's just except that in China, most of the students probably would just take it out of bank mom and dad, because this is just the habit, this is just what we do.
A: Oh, yeah. And also because of this pressure, things like internships become a lot more prevalent.
L: But internships don't really pay, do they?
A: Well no, that's the problem. So for example, richer families, they can afford for their son or daughter to go and do internship. However, if the parents can't afford that, then they don't get internships because they can't support themselves during that time.
L: Oh, and subsequently they won't be able to get very good job opportunities.
A: Oh, yeah, not as good as if you did an internship.
L: Em, true, and also one of other concerns that I've heard is people are saying education, especially in the UK are getting more elitist?
A: Well, I won't say more elitist, I would say university education was always a sign of being middle class or upper class. I would say now that in the 1990s, this was actually one of the reasons why they want to bring in tuition fees, is because they expanded university enrollment.
L: Ah, you went through that as well? They expanded the enrollment, so a lot of people are going to universities.
A: Yeah. For example, in the 1990s, at the turn of millennium, loads of new universities were set up, and lot of technique schools or what we used to call polytechnic, they were set up and they were changing into universities.
L: Ah, just because university probably sounds better.
A: Well, yeah, so in the past, if you went to university, even though you didn't have to pay, it's quite rare to go to universities and there were still lots of jobs you could do without university education. But now, because there are so many graduates in the job market, now jobs are recruiting graduates for jobs which you don't need university education before.
L: Exactly the same in China, because they expanded the enrollment, so now the minimum requirement seems to be university degree.
A: But what you said about elitist universities is still definitely a very big issue.
L: Oxbridge, obliviously.
A: Yeah, Oxford and Cambridge.
L: But Chinese are more familiar with the American Ivy league. So these are the elite private universities. Do you have similar things in the UK?
A: We have what we called the Russell Group.
L: The Russell Group.
A: It is a group of universities that at the top in the country.
L: En.
A: So for example, Oxford and Cambridge obviously are part of Russel Group, University of London.
L: En, so these are the top top.
A: Yeah. These are the top universities in Britain and especially Oxford and Cambridge, you were saying about the elitist. If you consider as well that Oxford and Cambridge are frequently criticized for being too elite, for not having enough comprehensive students.
L: Comprehensive as in comprehensive school.
A: Yeah.
L: So for those of you who probably forgot the previous episode, in secondary education in UK, comprehensives are free, and grammar schools or public schools, they are private. And you have to pay a lot of money to get in. So is it very difficult for a comprehensive school, like a pre-state school students to get into Oxbridge, then?
A: It's not impossible, but it's difficult, that's because Oxford and Cambridge they have their own interview systems in which a lot of people at public schools, they are trained on how to deal with this type of interviews, which make it slightly easier for them, but obviously Oxford and Cambridge, there is competition from all over the world. They are all fighting to get into Oxford and Cambridge.
L: True. And I remember you mentioned once before, about, for example, there were certain courses, like Latin, that is only taught in very expensive public schools, not so much in comprehensives.
A: Not so much in comprehensives, but that was my own particular subject because I was on classics. And it's also the same, for example my major, my major is in Chinese studies and Chinese language, but it's only the very top secondary schools or grammar schools or public schools would actually offer mandarin as a subject.
L: Oh, so learning Chinese now is considered quite an elite course.
A: Oh, because there are not so many teachers.
L: Yeah, so they got the best resources.
L: So today we looked at some of the problems, some of the concerns with the university education in the UK, the tuition fees, the students loans and also the elitism.
A: Then again, saying with all the problems as well, universities in the UK and in England, they really are quite special, they are very traditional, they generally have a high quality at teaching as well.
L: And also research.
A: And also research abilities. It's always worth just think about universities, and also do some research if you are interested.
L: If you are interested in the topic, leave us comment in the comment section. And more on Britain in next episode. See you next time.
A: Bye, bye.
L: Bye.

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