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We’re learning ways to perturb the brain and I’m just wondering do you
我们学习干扰大脑的方法，而且我在想
think someday that people will be sort of enhancing kind of “natural” creativity
你认为有没有可能 终有一日人类会获得某一种创造力“天性”
to get people to be more like what we think of as geniuses or is that just not possible?
就是我们所说的天才或者这只是白日做梦。
I love the idea of the vision that there’s a way to bring out the genius in all of us.
我喜欢相信能有一种能把所有人的内在天赋都激发出来的方式
And I wish that there was a way that in our educational system that we
而且我希望我们的教育系统能有办法
could develop ways to promote creativity. We do actually. We’re pretty good at it but we could be better.
促进每个人创造力发展。事实上我们确实有，而且做得很好。但是我们还能做更好。
That we could teach people to take risk in education.
我们可以让人们在教育过程中去冒险。
We could value more the person that takes the path that is not the common path. I think we as a society
我们应该更加注重那些不走寻常路的人，我认为我们
are pretty good at that but we could be a lot better. And I think that that’s
这个社会已经很好了，但我们能做的远不止这些。
one of the values of studying or thinking about genius. It’s a way for us to think about,
我认为天才们有非常好的学习和思考方法。
“Gee, let’s get better at this creative business. Let’s find that creative
我们值得效仿他们的思考方式，如，“吉，这件事我们还可以想出另一个更具创造性的点子，
spirit in all of us. Let’s move forward faster.”
我们每个人都有创新精神 我们只需要多一点的动力。”
I think sometimes people think about the brain as kind of a shortcut to all
我认为有时人们思考问题是有捷径的，
these sorts of problems, you know. If we could just understand the brain then we can just
你懂的，如果我们能够了解大脑如何处理问题，我们就能
go right in there and just fix things directly whereas it is easy to forget that,
直达主题，处理问题，不然我们都很容易忘记，你懂的。
you know, education itself alters the brain.
是教育改变了大脑
Exactly. I think that we have to think about brains in the context of our society.
的确如此 所以我认为我们应考虑智力在社会群体中的作用
One of the things about genius I think it’s not just an individual or just a brain.
而且我认为天才，不只涉及到个人与智力
It’s about opportunity. It’s about somebody who is given the pathway to
它还关乎机遇，这涉及到每个人得到机会后能够
actually make a contribution. Think of our musicians that most of us would consider geniuses
展现才能 想想能展现才能的音乐家，大家认为他们是天才
– Bach, Beethoven, Mozart. These are people that were put in positions that allowed them to be creative.
如巴赫，贝多芬，莫扎特 他们的创造力都得到了很好的发展
The creative spirit comes with many thing other than just a brain I think.
我认为，他们的创新精神有多方面因素，而非仅由于智力
It comes with opportunity. It comes with resources. It comes with attitude.
这关乎机遇，资金，态度
Again I like the idea of not thinking of it as something that targets an individual and separates them
我想在重申一次我的观点，不需要把天才限定到个人，把他们分离出去
but something that joins us together as a quality that belongs to all of us.
我们是整体一致的 我们有所有他们身上具有的品质
Well because it is true that when people talk about geniuses they are other.
认为天才与普通人不一样是正常的
They’re almost freakish. Exactly.
因为他们整日异想天开 的确如此
They’re like what is it like to be that person. I can’t even imagine.
他们可以把自己想象成任何人，我们连想都想不到
There’s a fetish to it.
他们痴迷于此
Exactly and I think that that attitude really deters people from taking the risk.
的确如此，态度决定了人们到底愿不愿意冒险
I mean it’s a double edged sword. The genius term is often associated with the
我的意思是这是一把双刃剑，天才总是
person that really changes the way we think. It could be something that didn’t exist
和思维怪异联系在一起。一些被认为不存在
before that changes the course of our progress in some fundamental way. And so that person
违背原理的东西，后来都成为一门独立学科，并发展起来
by his or her nature stands out and is different. And yet all of us are different in our creative
人天生就与众不同。每个人都有创造力光环
sphere and that by incorporating the creative person into the mainstream it might be a way to encourage more creativity.
激发全民创造可能是一条发展人们创造力的有效方法
In a way, you know, you’ve been talking a lot about the things that neuroscientists
在某种程度上，你懂的 你说的关于天才的许多事即便是神经系统科学家
can’t tell us about genius. We want easy answers and we think oh, the easy answers
也不能说明白。我们想要直奔主题，而答案就
are all in the brain. And you’re kind of warning us like well, we neuroscientists we
在我们的大脑里。你可能好心提醒，我们不比神经科学家知道的多
don’t know all that much. The brain’s a complicated thing and it’s a social thing too.
大脑是很复杂的社交性事物
So I mean what do you think that neuroscientists can do to help us understand genius better?
所以我想问，你认为神经科学家怎样才能帮我们更好的了解天才？
I mean what are the kinds of studies that you think would be like the best ones to do
我的意思是，了解天才的最好的研究方法是哪些
to make us understand genius as you think of it?
你是怎样想的?
I think that in general the study of individual differences is a really interesting direction to take.
个体差异研究是一件很有趣的选择方向。
Differences in say there’s some people that have extraordinary memory
差异在于有些人有着非凡的记忆力
and we can design experiments to look at the neurocircuitry that’s associated with memory strategies.
我们可以针对神经线路和记忆策略之间的关系进行实验
And we learned something about what makes one person better at memorizing
并从中了解到 为什么一个人的记忆要比另一个人的记忆力要好
things than another. There are differences in how well we do mathematics and how well
不同的人数学能力与整合能力是有差异的
we can put things together. And understanding the rules for those differences is important.
了解这些差异的规律是很重要的
For example, one of the things that neuroscientists have taught us recently is that the parts
譬如，神经科学家们最近发现一件事，我们从此了解到
of the brain are all so richly interconnected and the extent to which they are connected
大脑的大部分是互相连接的，以及相连的范围内
has a great deal to do with function.
形成了处理功能
So we’re talking about say a patch of your cortex over here and another
所以我们讨论的“大脑皮层的补丁”
patch over here and there are like cables joining them together.
分布在大脑各处，就像无数根绳索将它们连接到了一起
Indeed. And how well those connections actually work is thought to contribute a great deal to our individual differences.
以及，了解这些连接实际上是怎样工作 对了解个人差异有很大帮助
Is it that some people have more connections than others? Or bigger connections
是不是有的人大脑的连接比别人多?
or what are those underlying differences?
或者比别人的更大，或者优于他人?
Well it’s all of the above. In some cases the connections are actually more richly enervated.
这些都有可能。或者有些连接比较衰弱的案例 这些连接简单的多。
There are simply more of them. In other cases they go to slightly different places.
在有些例子中，他们的连接与他人不同。
In other cases they’re just stronger connections which means there’s less noise in the brain.
有些人的连接比较强烈 就是指干扰较少。
I mean all of those hypotheses are viable options. There’s evidence
我认为所有的假设都有可能
for all of them and they contribute to considerable differences between performances of one person and another.
所有假设都有迹象表明，每个人的都与他人的行为有相当大的差异
So if we start to get down to these real kind of biological components of
所以，如果我们去掉这些
creativity, of innovation and of ultimately what we might call genius, I’m wondering
称为创造力，革新力，以及所有能够被加诸到天才身上的生物因素
can we start to kind of figure out like are geniuses just born or are they made?
我想，我们能推断天才是天生的还是后天培养出来的?
Can we figure out like what the differences are? You know, was Einstein just a blank slate
推断出这些差异又是什么?你懂的，爱因斯坦刚出生的时候仅仅是一块白板
when he was born and he just happened to have a really good math teacher in first grade.
而他的启蒙数学老师是一个非常好的老师
I mean what – how do those connections – what do we know about how those connections develop
我的意思是—这些联系—我们对这些联系
in children, in teenagers, in adults and how the genes play a role in all that.
在童年，青年，成年时期是怎样发展的?以及基因是起怎样作用的?
That really is the $64,000 question and it is the question that we would like to answer.
就像十万个为什么缠绕在我们心上 我们想要得到答案。
How does the brain do it and how do we help the brain do it better? I think
大脑是如何处理事情的?我们怎样做才能帮助大脑更好的处理这些事情?
that your question really raises another really important point and that is how much bigger
我觉得你的问题引出了一个很重要的点，这就是
our questions are than our science and our methodology. We need a genius to figure this
提出疑问的作用比科学和方法论的作用大的多 我们需要天才来进行假设推断
one out because we need to be able to answer those kinds of questions faster.
我们想要尽快解决问题，
We need to answer them better and we need to apply them to our lives.
更好的回答这些问题，并把它们运用到我们的实际生活中来
