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About three years ago I came in to Big Think and I talked very strongly and very passionately
大约3年前 我来到“大思维” 并且我很强烈地和富有激情地讨论了
about atheism, how I did not believe in God.
无神论 关于我如何不相信神
And over the past three years I opened my heart to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit filled me.
在过去的三年中 我将我的心交给了上帝和救世主耶稣基督 神圣的光芒充斥着我的内心
And all of a sudden I realized that everlasting life is possible by following in the ways of Jesus Christ our Lord.
猛然间 我意识到不朽的生命 可以以我们的上帝--耶稣基督的形式延续下去
I have since then dedicated my life to Jesus Christ.
从那以后 我就将我自己奉献给了耶稣基督
I have joined the Church and I will live the rest of my life and die as a Christian in
我加入了教会 我将愉悦的作为基督徒用余生侍奉我们的上帝--耶稣基督
service and in joy with Jesus Christ Our Lord. I’m just fucking with you.
直到死亡 哈哈哈哈 我是在开玩笑啦
For a minute, just for a minute did I - just for a second did I have you going?
你们有没有在某一分钟被我骗到 或者某一秒？
Just for a minute?
就一分钟？
Can you imagine how much money I would make if I could just convert to re - I don’t have to convert.
你们可以想象如果我改变我原来的思想 我会赚多少钱 我就是不想改变
If I just pretend to convert.
而如果我假装我改变了
Can you imagine if I just took and threw away my atheism, if I threw away my morality and
你们能想象如果忘记我的无神论 如果我放弃我的道德标准 然后
said I was religious and went out and started preaching?
说我是虔诚的并且开始布道？
Can you imagine the amount of money I would make.
你们能想象我能赚多少钱
But what good if a man gained the whole world but lose his soul. No.
但是如果一个人获得了全世界却丢失了他的灵魂能得到什么好处 没有
I’m still an atheist. I’m still doing fine.
我仍是一个无神论者 而且我仍然过得很好
I just spoke at a Young Americans for Liberty conference, you know, a lot of conservatives,
我刚刚在美国青年自由大会 你们知道的 很多保守派
a lot of people that are too young to be wearing suits were wearing suits. I liked them.
很多年龄低于穿西装年龄的人穿着西装 我挺喜欢他们
And afterwards a man came up to me probably 20 years old and he was slight in build, very
然后 一个大约20岁的男人来到我身边 他身材略健硕
dark complected and he said to me I wanted to talk about this during your lecture but
肤色很黑 然后他跟我说 他在我演讲的时候就想和我讨论
I was very, very frightened that there were cameras there.
但是他非常非常害怕这里的相机
And I said well there were cameras there so at least you’re not frightened by UFOs.
然后我对他说 既然这里有相机 至少你不用害怕外星人了
You’re frightened by spiders, something that’s real. I can respect that.
你会害怕蜘蛛 害怕某些真实存在的东西 我会尊重
I made this kind of light of his wording there.
我开始并没有很认真的对待他的话
And then he shut me up because then he said my family is from Pakistan and everybody in my community is a devout Muslim.
但他让我不要讲话听他说 他说因为他的家庭来自巴基斯坦 在他生活的社区每一个人都是虔诚的穆斯林
And my mom and dad are devout Muslims. And I’m an atheist.
他的父母也都是虔诚的穆斯林 但是 他却是一个无神论者
And if I said that while you were speaking, if I raised my hand and said that with the
他说 如果他在我说话的时候举手
cameras on, said that declared a statement I’m an atheist.
并对着那些相机的面说自己是一个无神论者
My mom and dad would not kill me but they would disown me, and they would never speak to me again.
他的父母不会杀了他 但会和他断绝关系 并且永远不和他讲话
And I would be an apostate and it is not unlikely that someone in my community would kill me.
他将会成为一名背叛者 而他所属群体的人并非不可能杀死他
And he didn’t mean that figuratively.
他并没有用比喻
He didn’t mean that word kill like comedians mean it.
他并没有用开玩笑的形式描述“杀”这个字眼
He meant they would take his life away.
他真的在说那将“杀”了他
Now I know Ayaan Hirsi Ali so I know he wasn’t a bluffer.
现在 我认识了阿让·谢阿利 所以我知道他不是骗子
And then it got worse because then he said and yet with my dark skin and my straight
然后 他跟我说了更加糟糕的事情 因为他深色的皮肤和黑色的直发
black hair the other side considers me Muslim and wants
非穆斯林派都认为他是穆斯林
to get me out of the country and treat me badly.
他们想让他滚出这个国家 恶狠狠地对待他
And I hear Trump giving his speeches against people of my ancestry.
当他听到川普针对他祖先的演讲时
And I realize that there’s nobody for me. Nobody.
他意识到 没有人可以为他说话 没有人
And he said I wanted to talk to you because - and this is him saying this - he said
然后他对我说 他想和我交流 这真的是他对我说的
some stuff about me being some, you know, the only one who would understand, which is clearly not true.
我具备的某些特点使我成为唯一一个懂他的人 但这显然不是真的
Everybody understands. Virtually everybody understands.
每个人都懂 实际上每个人都懂
But, you know, as an atheist, Christopher Hitchins, my friend, my hero, my mentor, even though
但是 作为无神论者 克里斯托弗·西钦斯 我的朋友 我的偶像 我的导师
he isn’t much older than me but he’s so much smarter.
即使他不比我年长但是他比我聪明多了
He used to say, you know Penn, if you dislike Christianity you must dislike Islam much more.
他常说 你知道么 佩恩 如果你不喜欢基督教文化世界 你一定更不喜欢伊斯兰教文化世界
Now I want to be very careful about this.
现在我想我会对此言论更加谨慎
Islamophobia is the wrong word. Islam is an idea. Muslims are people.
伊斯兰恐惧症（islamophobia）是一个错误的单词 伊斯兰教是一种思想 穆斯林是人
You’re allowed to hate ideas. You’re allowed to disagree with ideas.
你可以憎恨想法 你可以不同意观点
You’re not allowed to hate people for their ideas.
但你不可以因为他人的观点去憎恨他们
It’s the wrong word. It’s just the wrong word.
这是一个错误的单词 它就是一个错误的单词
We have to be more careful.
我们对此都要谨慎使用
Islamaphobia is not racism, saying anything against Muslims is.
伊斯兰恐惧症不是种族歧视 或是说穆斯林的不是
You can say Christianity is wrong and have friends who are Christians.
你可以说基督教是错的 但是你依然有基督教徒朋友
You can show full respect for Christians.
你可以非常尊重基督教徒
You’re not Christianityaphobic, you know, you’re just saying no, I have a different idea.
你没有基督教恐惧症 你只会说 不 我有不同的想法
That’s what America is.
这就是美国
And I believe my feelings as an atheist change somewhat when that man speaks to me because of my heart.
我相信当我听到那个男人对我说的话的时候 我作为无神论者的感受多少改变了一些 因为我的心
Yes, Islam is wrong. Yes, Christianity is wrong.
是的 伊斯兰教是错误的 是的 基督教是错误的
Yes, Judaism is wrong. I believe that like I believe I breathe.
是的 犹太教是错误的 我相信这些正如我相信呼吸一样
I don’t doubt that ever.
我从不质疑
But right now Muslims, those who believe in Islam really need our help.
但是现在 穆斯林 那些相信伊斯兰教的人们真的需要我们的帮助
There’s refugees who are suffering
那些难民正经历着磨难
in away that history will not be kind to us for ignoring that.
如果我们忽视这些磨难 天理不容
We must love them. We just embrace them. We must help them.
我们要爱他们 我们要拥抱他们 我们要帮助他们
Even if they believe things that we know are wrong.
即使他们相信着我们认为是错误的东西
The chances of a terrorist believing in Islam are pretty good.
恐怖分子相信伊斯兰教的几率是很高的
The chances of someone who believes in Islam being a terrorist are very, very bad.
但是相信伊斯兰教的人变成恐怖分子的几率是极低的
Very little chance of that.
非常低
We took into Nevada - I live in Nevada.
我们拿内华达州举例 我住在内华达州
We took nine people from Syria in the entire state of Nevada.
我们整个内华达州接受了9名叙利亚难民
That’s how many we welcomed. Nine.
那就是我们乐意接受的数目 9名
The number of fingers Jerry Garcia had - nine.
杰瑞·加西亚手指的数量--9
Nine - actually if it’s going to be Jerry Garcia I think it’s nine.
Nine? No it’s this hand - nine.
Jerry Garcia is not important in this discussion Penn.
杰瑞·加西亚在这个讨论中不重要 佩恩
Get on with it. Nine? No isn't it nine？ Jerry Garcia - nine. Nine.
继续 9？不 不是9么？杰瑞·加西亚 9 9
Not nine families. Nine people. Nevada. It’s a state, you know.
不是9个家庭 是9个人 内华达 这是一个州 你知道的
We’ve got to help those people.
我们需要去帮助这些人
Now how do I as an atheist say to Muslims your religion is wrong, your terrorists are
现在 作为无神论者 我该怎么对穆斯林说你们的宗教信仰是错的 你们的恐怖分子是
crazy, this is dangerous, get over it and then say I love you and you’re welcome.
疯狂的 这是危险的 忘记它吧 然后说我爱你们 我欢迎你们 ？
Really, really hard.
真的 真的很难
I’ve got to tell you I know there’s no God and because there’s no God we have to reach out to Muslims.
我必须告诉你们 我知道没有上帝 而且正因为没有上帝 我们才必须去帮助穆斯林
We have to do God’s work because God’s not going to.
我们必须去做上帝的工作 因为上帝不会去做的
And that love and that compassion is not gonna come from Allah and it’s not gonna to come from Yehovah,
而且 不会出现来自真神阿拉的爱与怜悯 不会出现来自耶和华的爱与怜悯
It’s not gonna come from Jesus Christ.
也不会出现来自耶稣基督的爱与怜悯
That love and compassion is gonna come from us.
爱与怜悯只会来自于我们
Is it dangerous to embrace Muslims because some of them will be terrorists?
那么拥抱穆斯林危险吗 因为他们之中的一些人是恐怖分子？
Yeah, it’s really dangerous. Do we have to protect ourselves?
是的 真的危险 我们必须保护自己吗 ？
Yeah, we really do. There’s hard problems here. Really hard problems.
是的 我们非常需要 这儿有个艰难的问题 非常艰难的问题
And I don’t have any of the answers to it.
我没有针对它的任何答案
But I’ll tell you what the answer isn’t.
但我可以告诉你什么不是答案
The answer isn’t standing up with hair that looks like cotton candy made of piss and saying,
答案不是顶着像小便制成的棉花糖似的头发站起来说
you know, we’ve got to keep these people out of here.
你们知道的 我们必须要让这些人离开这里
We’ve got to keep these people out of here.
我们必须要让这些人离开这里
I cannot find any way that preaching hate helps that situation.
宣扬恨根本没有帮助
And I defy you no matter how afraid you are of terrorists to look at that man.
而且 无论你多害怕恐怖分子 我谅你也不敢正视那个男人
I’m so glad I don’t remember his name.
我很高兴我不记得他的名字了
I’m so glad I don’t remember where he’s from because in the incident that I talk about
我很高兴我不记得他从哪里来 因为当时
him because I’m such an idiot I spill everything that’s going through my head.
因为当时我脑子一团乱
I might actually jeopardize his life but I don’t know who he is so we’re safe.
我可能真的危害到了他的生命 但我不知道他是谁 所以我们是安全的
I don’t know where he’s from so we’re safe, except for Pakistan.
我不知道他来自哪里 所以我们是安全的 除了巴基斯坦
No, he was born in the USA, born in--it doesn't matter.
不 他出生在美国 出生在--那不重要
How do we do that? How do we help
我们应该怎么做？我们要怎么去帮助
How do we help people that have a religion that’s wrong but that aren’t going to
我们要怎么帮助那些有着错误的宗教信仰的 但不会杀掉我们的那些人
kill us to be able to be part of us without, you know,
使他们成为我们中的一员 并避免 你知道的
We see it in France, we see it in Belgium.
我们在法国看到了 我们在比利时看到了
We see it in these places these communities that stay insular, you know,
我们在这些地方看到了这些保持孤立的群体 你知道的
This man says to me that my community would kill me, these insular communities.
那个人说我所在的群体会杀了我 这些孤立的社群
We’ve got to get back to the idea of an America that was a melting pot.
我们必须回到美国是一个大熔炉的思路当中
We have to be able to have that guy that talked to me after my lecture.
我们需要有那个在我演讲后跟我说话的男人
We’ve got to be able to have him just, you know, be another guy.
我们可以让他成为另一个人
That all of this, this long winded passionate craziness that I’m spewing out with no answers
我说的这些冗长的 富有激情的 没有答案的疯狂的话
just comes down to we’ve got to stop judging people by the color of their skin and where they’re from.
是想表明我们必须停止通过别人的肤色和祖籍来评价别人
I mean didn’t we learn that with the Irish?
难道我们没有从爱尔兰裔那里学到什么吗？
Didn’t we learn that with the Polish?
难道我们没有从波兰裔那里学到什么吗？
Didn’t we learn that with the Africans?
难道我们没有从非裔那里学到什么吗？
Didn’t we learn that with every single group of people that we’ve spit on and not welcomed?
难道我们没有从每一个被我们唾弃和嫌弃的群体中学到什么吗？
I mean John Lennon said in a song called New York City with the Elephant’s Memory Band
我想说，正如约翰·列侬和大象的回忆组合的在一首名为《纽约市》的歌里唱的那样
if the man wants to shove us out, we’re gonna jump and shout.
如果有人想把我们清除出去 我们会跳着咆哮
The Statue of Liberty said come.
自由女神像说来吧
New York City such a fucking badass city. Yeah, you know.
纽约是多么酷的城市啊 是的 你知道的
The United States of America is a fucking badass country.
美利坚合众国是个多么酷的国家啊
And we are strong and we are brave and we are loving and we’ve got to stop acting like cowards.
我们坚强 我们勇敢 我们充满爱意 并且我们必须停止懦夫的做法
We’ve got to stop acting like in every single cupboard is a Muslim terrorist.
我们必须停止草木皆兵的做法
Yes, terrorism is a problem. Yes, we have to protect our families.
是的 恐怖主义是个问题 是的 我们必须保护我们的家庭
Yes, the nightmare of these deaths is unforgiveable and unthinkable.
是的 这些死亡的噩梦是无法原谅且无法想象的
But we have to remember that people are good.
但是我们必须记得人是善良的
If you look at the seven billion people on this planet, just about seven billion of them are really good.
如果你去看看这个星球上70亿人口 就看看这70亿人口 他们几乎都是善良的
We can really trust them. Can we please learn something from Las Vegas.
我们可以相信他们 我们可以从拉斯维加斯学到点什么
Learn something about gambling, right.
比如学点关于赌博的东西 对吧
We know how the odds work. We know the house always wins.
我们知道赔率是如何计算的 我们知道庄家总是会赢
In this case the odds are always on someone being good.
在这种情况下 赔率总是照顾善良的人
If someone walks up to you with dark skin and straight hair looking like they’re from
如果一个有着深色皮肤和直发 看上去像是来自
Pakistan or Egypt or even Iraq, even Afghanistan and they’re walking towards you the chances
巴基斯坦 或是埃及 或者甚至是伊拉克 阿富汗的人走向你
are overwhelming that that person will be good.
很有可能这些走向你的人是善良的人
You’re not trying to film an Inside Straight.
你不是在拍《脂粉市场》
Your chances are way - in your advantage they’re good people.
你的机会是--你有很大可能遇到的都是好人
So how did my atheism change?
所以 我的无神论如何发生变化的呢？
Well there’s no God and there’s never a doubt about that ever.
世界上没有上帝 我永远相信这一点
But we have to make sure that when we’re screaming that there’s no God we don’t
但是 我们必须确保 当我们呐喊世界上没有上帝的时候
scream it so loud that we can’t hear someone who is religious crying for help and know that we have to help them.
我们不能声音大到听不见那些有宗教信仰的人的求救的哭泣声 记着 我们要去帮助他们
